You’ve reached your free article limit
Log in
To continue reading, log in to your account.
Create a Free Account
To unlock more free articles, please create a free account.
Sign In or Create an Account.
By continuing, you agree to the Terms of Service and acknowledge our Privacy Policy
Welcome to Heatmap
Thank you for registering with Heatmap. Climate change is one of the greatest challenges of our lives, a force reshaping our economy, our politics, and our culture. We hope to be your trusted, friendly, and insightful guide to that transformation. Please enjoy your free articles. You can check your profile here .
subscribe to get Unlimited access
Offer for a Heatmap News Unlimited Access subscription; please note that your subscription will renew automatically unless you cancel prior to renewal. Cancellation takes effect at the end of your current billing period. We will let you know in advance of any price changes. Taxes may apply. Offer terms are subject to change.
Subscribe to get unlimited Access
Hey, you are out of free articles but you are only a few clicks away from full access. Subscribe below and take advantage of our introductory offer.
subscribe to get Unlimited access
Offer for a Heatmap News Unlimited Access subscription; please note that your subscription will renew automatically unless you cancel prior to renewal. Cancellation takes effect at the end of your current billing period. We will let you know in advance of any price changes. Taxes may apply. Offer terms are subject to change.
Create Your Account
Please Enter Your Password
Forgot your password?
Please enter the email address you use for your account so we can send you a link to reset your password:
A U.S. firm led by former Israeli government physicists, Stardust seeks to patent its proprietary sunlight-scattering particle — but it won’t deploy its technology until global governments authorize such a move, its CEO says.

The era of the geoengineering startup has seemingly arrived.
Stardust Solutions, a company led by a team of Israeli physicists, announced on Friday that it has raised $60 million in venture capital to develop technological building blocks that it says will make solar geoengineering possible by the beginning of next decade.
It is betting that it can be the first to develop solar geoengineering technology, a hypothetical approach that uses aerosols to reflect sunlight away from Earth’s surface to balance out the effects of greenhouse gases. Yanai Yedvab, Stardust’s CEO, says that the company’s technology will be ready to deploy by the end of the decade.
The funding announcement represents a coming out of sorts for Stardust, which has been one of the biggest open secrets in the small world of solar geoengineering researchers. The company is — depending on how you look at it — either setting out a new way to research solar radiation management, or SRM, or violating a set of informal global norms that have built up to govern climate-intervention research over time.
Chief among these: While universities, nonprofits, and government labs have traditionally led SRM studies, Stardust is a for-profit company. It is seeking a patent for aspects of its geoengineering system, including protections for the reflective particles that it hopes governments will eventually disperse in the atmosphere.
The company has sought the advice of former United Nations diplomats, federal scientists, and Silicon Valley investors in its pursuit of geoengineering technology. Lowercarbon Capital, one of the most respected climate tech venture capital firms, led the funding round. Stardust previously raised a seed round of $15 million from Canadian and Israeli investors. It has not disclosed a valuation.
Yedvab assured me that once Stardust’s geoengineering system is ready to deploy, governments will decide whether and when to do so.
But even if it is successful, Stardust’s technology will not remove climate risk entirely. “There will still be extreme weather events. We’re not preventing them altogether,” Yedvab said. Rather, tinkering with the Earth’s atmosphere on a planetary scale could help preserve something like normal life — “like the life that all of us, you, us, our children have been experiencing over the last few decades.” The new round of funding, he says, will put that dream within reach.
Yedvab, 54, has salt and pepper hair and a weary demeanor. When I met him earlier this month, he and his cofounder, Stardust Chief Product Officer Amyad Spector, had just flown into New York from Tel Aviv, before continuing on to Washington, D.C., that afternoon. Yedvab worked for many years at the center of the Israeli scientific and defense establishment. From 2011 to 2015, he was the deputy chief research scientist at the Israeli Atomic Energy Commission. He was also previously the head of the physics division at the highly classified Israeli nuclear research site in Negev, according to his LinkedIn.
Spector, 42, has also spent much of his career working for the Israeli government. He was a physics researcher at the Negev Nuclear Research Center before working on unspecified R&D projects for the government for nearly a decade, as well as on its Covid response. He left the government in December 2022.
Stardust’s story, in their telling, began in the wake of the pandemic, when they and their third cofounder — Eli Waxman, a particle physics professor at the Weizmann Institute of Science — became curious about climate change. “We started [with a] first principles approach,” Yedvab told me. What were countries’ plans to deal with warming? What did the data say? It was a heady moment in global climate politics: The United States and Europe had recently passed major climate spending laws, and clean energy companies were finally competing on cost with oil and gas companies.
Yet Yedvab was struck by how far away the world seemed to be from meeting any serious climate goal. “I think the thing that became very clear early on is that we’re definitely not winning here, right?” he told me. “These extreme weather events essentially destroy communities, drain ecosystems, and also may have major implications in terms of national security,” he said. “To continue doing what we’re doing over the next few decades and expecting materially different results will not get us where we want to be. And the implications can be quite horrific.”
Then they came across two documents that changed their thinking. The first was a 2021 report from the National Academies of Sciences in the United States, which argued that the federal government should establish “a transdisciplinary, solar geoengineering research program” — although it added that this must only be a “minor part” of the country’s overall climate studies and could not substitute for emissions reductions. Its authors seemed to treat solar geoengineering as a technology that could be developed in the near term, akin to artificial intelligence or self-driving cars.
They also found a much older article by the physicist Edward Teller — the same Teller who had battled with J. Robert Oppenheimer during the Manhattan Project. Teller had warned the oil industry about climate change as early as 1959, but in his final years he sought ways to avoid cutting fossil fuels at all. Writing in The Wall Street Journal weeks before the Kyoto Protocol meetings in 1997, an 89-year-old Teller argued that “contemporary technology offers considerably more realistic options for addressing any global warming effect” than politicians or activists were considering.
“One particularly attractive approach,” he wrote, was solar geoengineering. Blocking just 1% of sunlight could reduce temperatures while costing $100 million to $1 billion a year, he said, a fraction of the estimated societal cost of paring fossil fuels to their 1990 levels. A few years later, he wrote a longer report for the Energy Department arguing for the “active technical management” of the atmosphere rather than “administrative management” of fossil fuel consumption. He died in 2003.
The documents captivated the two scientists. What began to appeal to Yedvab and Spector was the economy of scale unlocked by the stratosphere — the way that just a few million tons of material could change the global climate. “It's very easy to understand why, if this works, the benefit could be enormous,” Yedvab said. “You can actually stop global warming. You can cool the planet and avoid a large part of the suffering. But then again, it was a very theoretical concept.” They incorporated Stardust in early 2023.
Economists had long anticipated the appeal of such an approach to climate management. Nearly two decades ago, the Columbia economist Scott Barrett observed that solar geoengineering’s economics are almost the exact opposite of climate change’s: While global warming is a “free rider” problem, where countries must collaborate to avoid burning cheap fossil fuels, solar geoengineering is a “free driver” problem, where one country could theoretically do it alone. Solar geonengineering’s risks lay in how easy it would be to do — and how hard it would be to govern.
Experts knew how you would do it, too: You would use sulfate aerosols — the tiny airborne chemicals formed when sulfur from volcanoes or fossil fuels reacts with water vapor, oxygen, and other substances in the air. In a now classic natural experiment Teller cited in his Journal op-ed, when Mount Pintabuo erupted in 1991 in the Philippines, it hurled a 20 million ton sulfur-dioxide cloud into the stratosphere, cooling the world by up to 1.3 degrees Fahrenheit before the sulfates rained out.
But to Yedvab, “sulfates look like a poor option,” he told me. Sulfates and sulfur oxides are nasty pollutants in their own right — they can cause asthma attacks, form acid rain, and may damage the ozone layer when in the stratosphere. For this reason, the International Maritime Organization adopted new rules restricting the amount of sulfur in cargo shipping fuels; these rules — in yet another natural experiment — seem to have accidentally accelerated global warming since 2020.
Yedvab and Spector anticipated another problem with sulfates: The atmosphere already contains tens of millions of tons of them. There is already so much sulfate in the sky from natural and industrial processes, they argue, that scientists would struggle to monitor whatever was released by geoengineers; Spector estimates that the smallest potential geoengineering experiment would require emitting 1 million tons of it. The chemical seemed to present an impossible trade-off to policymakers: How could a politician balance asthma attacks and acid rain against a cooler planet? “This is not something that decisionmakers can make a decision about,” Yedvab concluded.

Instead, the three founders tried starting at the end of the process, as they put it. What would an ideal geoengineering system look like? “Let’s say that we are successful in developing a system,” Yedvab said. “What will be the questions that people like you — that policymakers, the general public — will ask us?”
Any completed geoengineering system, they concluded, would need to meet a few constraints. It would need, first, a particle that could reflect a small amount of sunlight away from Earth while allowing infrared radiation from the planet’s surface to bounce back into space. That particle would need to be tested iteratively and manufactured easily in the millions of tons, which means it would also have to be low-cost.
“This needs to be a scalable or realistic particle that we know from the start how to produce at scale in the millions of tons, and at the relevant target price of a few dollars per kilo,” Yedvab said. “So not diamonds or something that we've done at the lab but have no idea how to scale it up,” Yedvab said.
It would need to be completely safe for people and the biosphere. Stardust hopes to run its particle through a safety process like the ones that the U.S. and EU subject food or other materials to, Yedvab said. “This needs to be as safe as, say, flour or some food ingredient,” Yedvab said. The particle would also need to be robust and inert in the stratosphere, and you would need some way to manage and identify it, perhaps even to track it, once it got there.
Second, the system would need some way to “loft” that particle into the stratosphere — some machine that could disperse the particle at altitude. Finally, it would need some way to make the particles observable and controllable, to make sure they are acting as intended. “For visibility, for control, for, I would say, geopolitical implications — you want to make sure you actually know where, how these particles move around, Yedvab said.
Stardust received $15 million in seed funding from the venture firm AWZ and Solar Edge, an Israeli energy company, in early 2024. Soon after, the founders got to work.
The world has come close to solving a global environmental crisis at least once before. In 1987, countries adopted the Montreal Protocol, which set out rules to eliminate and replace the chlorofluorocarbons that were destroying the stratospheric ozone hole. Nearly 40 years later, the ozone hole is showing signs of significant recovery. And more to the point, almost nobody talks about the ozone hole anymore, because someone else is dealing with it.
“I would say it was the biggest triumph of environmental diplomacy ever,” Yedvab said. “In three years, beginning to end, the U.S. government was able to secure the support of essentially all the major powers in solving a global problem.” The story is not quite that simple — the Reagan administration initially resisted addressing the ozone hole until American companies like DuPont stood to benefit by selling non-ozone-depleting chemicals — but it captures the kind of triumphant U.S.-led process that Stardust wouldn’t mind seeing repeated.
In 2024, soon after Stardust raised its seed round, Yedvab approached the Swiss-Hungarian diplomat Janos Pasztor and invited him to join the company to advise on the thicket of issues usually simplified as “governance.” These can include technical-seeming questions about how companies should test their technology and who they should seek input from, but they all, at their heart, get to the fundamentally undemocratic nature of solar geoengineering. Given that the atmosphere is a global public good, who on Earth has the right to decide what happens to it?
Pasztor is the former UN assistant secretary-general for climate change, but he was also the longtime leader of the Carnegie Climate Governance Initiative, a nonprofit effort to hammer out consensus answers to some of those questions.
Pasztor hesitated to accept the request. “It was a quadruple challenge,” he told me, speaking from his study in Switzerland. He and his wife frequently attend pro-Palestine demonstrations, he said, and he was reluctant to work with anyone from Israel as long as the country continued to occupy Gaza and the West Bank. Stardust’s status as a private, for-profit enterprise also gave him pause: Pasztor has long advocated for SRM research to be conducted by governments or academics, so that the science can happen out in the open. Stardust broke with all of that.
Despite his reservations, he concluded that the issue was too important — and the lack of any regulation or governance in the space too glaring — for him to turn the company away. “This is an issue that does require some movement,” he said. “We need some governance for the research and development of stratospheric aerosol injection … We don’t have any.”
He agreed to advise Stardust as a contractor, provided that he could publish his report on the company independently and donate his fee to charity. (He ultimately gave $27,000 to UNRWA, the UN agency for Palestinian refugees.)
That summer, Pasztor completed his recommendations, advising Stardust — which remained in stealth mode — to pursue a strategy of “maximum transparency” and publish a website with a code of conduct and some way to have two-way conversations with stakeholders. He also encouraged the company to support a de facto moratorium on geoengineering deployment, and to eventually consider making its intellectual property available to the public in much the same way that Volvo once opened its design for the three-point seatbelt.
His report gestured at Stardust’s strangeness: Here was a company that said it hoped to abide by global research norms, but was, by its very existence, flouting them. “It has generally been considered that private ownership of the means to manage the global atmosphere is not appropriate,” he wrote. “Yet the world is currently faced with a situation of de facto private finance funding [stratospheric aerosol injection] activities.”
Pasztor had initially hoped to publish his report and Stardust’s code of conduct together, he told me. But the company did not immediately establish a website, and eventually Pasztor simply released his report on LinkedIn. Stardust did not put up a website until earlier this year, during the reporting process for a longer feature about the company by the MIT-affiliated science magazine Undark. That website now features Pasztor’s report and a set of “principles,” though not the code of conduct Pasztor envisioned. They are “dragging their feet on that,” he said.
As news of the company trickled out, Stardust’s leaders grew more confident in their methods. In September 2024, Yedvab presented on Stardust’s approach to stratospheric researchers at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s chemical sciences laboratory in Boulder, Colorado. The lab’s director, David Fahey, downplayed the importance of the talk. “There’s a stratospheric community in the world and we know all the long-term members. We’re an open shop,” he said. “We’ll talk to anyone who comes.” Stardust is the only company of its size and seriousness that has shown up, he said.
Stardust is the only company of its size and seriousness working on geoengineering, period, he added. “Stardust really stands out for the investment that they’re trying to make into how you might achieve climate intervention,” he said. “They’re realizing there’s a number of questions the world will need answered if we are going to put the scale of material in the stratosphere that they think we may need to.” (At least one other U.S. company, Make Sunsets, has claimed to release sulfates in the atmosphere and has even sold “cooling credits” to fund its work. But it has raised a fraction of Stardust’s capital, and its unsanctioned outdoor experiments set off such a backlash that Mexico banned all solar geoengineering experiments in response.)
Pasztor continued to work with Stardust throughout this year despite the company’s foot-dragging. He left this summer when he felt like he was becoming a spokesperson for a business that he merely advised. Stardust has more recently worked with Matthew Waxman, a Columbia law professor, on governance issues through the company WestExec Advisors.
Today, Stardust employs a roughly 25-person team that includes physicists, chemists, mechanical engineers, material engineers, and climate experts. Many of them are drawn from Yedvab and Spector’s previous work on Israeli R&D projects.
The company is getting closer to its goals. Yedvab told me that it has developed a proprietary particle that meets its safety and reflectivity requirements. Stardust is now seeking a patent for the material, and it will not disclose the chemical makeup until it receives intellectual property protection. The company claims to be working with a handful of academics around the world on peer-reviewed studies about the particle and broader system, although it declined to provide a list of these researchers on the record.
As Yedvab sees it, the system itself is the true innovation. Stardust has engineered every part of its approach to work in conjunction with every other part — a type of systems thinking that Yedvab and Spector presumably brought from their previous career in government R&D.
Spector described one representative problem: Tiny particles tend to attract each other and clump together when floating in the air, which would decrease the amount of time they spend in the atmosphere, he said. Stardust has built custom machinery to “deagglomerate” the particles, and it has made sure that this dispersion technology is small and light enough to sit on an aircraft flying at or near the stratosphere. (The stratosphere begins at about 26,000 feet over the poles, but 52,000 feet above the equator.)
This integrated approach is part of why Stardust believes it is much further along than any other research effort. “Whatever group that would try to do this, you would need all those types of [people] working together, because otherwise you might have the best chemist, or make the best particle, but it would not fly,” Spector said.
With the new funding, the company believes that its technology could be ready to deploy as soon as the end of this decade. By then, the company hopes to have a particle fabrication facility, a mid-size fleet of aircraft (perhaps a fraction of the size of FedEx’s), and an array of monitoring technology and software ready to deploy.
Even then, its needs would be modest. That infrastructure — and roughly 2 million tons of the unspecified particle — would be all that was required to stop the climate from warming further, Spector said. Each additional million tons a year would reduce Earth’s temperature about half of a degree.
Yet having the technology does not mean that Stardust will deploy it, Yedvab said. The company maintains that it won’t move forward until governments invite it to. “We will only participate in deployment which will be done under adequate governance led by governments,” Yedvab told me. “When you're dealing with such an issue, you should have very clear guiding principles … There are certain ground rules that — I would say in the lack of regulation and governance — we impose upon ourselves.”
He said the company has spoken to American policy makers “on both sides of the aisle” to encourage near-term regulation of the technology. “Policymakers and regulators should get into this game now, because in our view, it's only a matter of time until someone will say, Okay, I'm going and trying to do it,” Yedvab said. “And this could be very dangerous.”
There is a small and active community of academics, scientists, and experts who have been thinking and studying geoengineering for a long time. Stardust is not what almost any of them would have wished a solar geoengineering company to look like.
Researchers had assumed that the first workable SRM system would come from a government, emerging at the end of a long and deliberative public research process. Stardust, meanwhile, is a for-profit company run by Israeli ex-nuclear physicists that spent years in stealth mode, is seeking patent protections for its proprietary particle, and eventually hopes — with the help of the world’s governments — to disperse that particle through the atmosphere indefinitely.
For these reasons, even experts who in other contexts support aggressive research into deploying SRM are quite critical of Stardust.
“The people involved seem like really serious, thoughtful people,” David Keith, a professor and the founding faculty director of the Climate Systems Engineering Initiative at the University of Chicago, told me. “I think their claims about making an inert particle — and their implicit assumption that you can make a particle that is better than sulfates” are “almost certain to be wrong.”
Keith, who is on the scientific advisory board of Reflective, a San Francisco-based nonprofit that aims to accelerate SRM research and technology development, has frank doubts about Stardust’s scientific rationale. Sulfates are almost certainly a better choice than whatever Stardust has cooked up, he said, because we have already spent decades studying how sulfates act. “There’s no such particle that’s inert in the stratosphere,” he told me. “Now maybe they’ve invented something they’ll get a Nobel Prize for that violates that — but I don’t think so.”
He also rejects the premise that for-profit companies should work on SRM. Keith, to be clear, does not hate capitalism: In 2009, he founded the company Carbon Engineering, which developed carbon capture technology before the oil giant Occidental Petroleum bought it for $1.1 billion in 2023. But he has argued since 2018 that while carbon capture is properly the domain of for-profit firms, solar engineering research should never be commercialized.
“Companies always, by definition, have to sell their product,” he told me. “It’s just axiomatic that people tend to overstate the benefits and undersell the risk.” Capitalistic firms excel at driving down the cost of new technologies and producing them at scale, he said. But “for stratospheric aerosol injection, we don’t need it to be cheaper — it’s already cheap,” he continued. “We need better confidence and trust and better bounding of the unknown unknowns.”
Shuchi Talati, who founded and leads the Alliance for Just Deliberation on Solar Geoengineering, is also skeptical. She still believes that countries could find a way to do solar geoengineering for the public good, she told me, but it will almost certainly not look like Stardust. The company is in violation of virtually every norm that has driven the field so far: It is not open about its research or its particle, it is a for-profit company, and it is pursuing intellectual property protections for its technology.
“I think transparency is in every single set of SRM principles” developed since the technology was first conceived, she said. “They obviously have flouted that in their entirety.”
She doubted, too, that Stardust could actually develop a new and totally biosafe chemical, given the amount of mass that would have to be released in the stratosphere to counteract climate change. “Nothing is biosafe” when you disperse it at sufficient scale, she said. “Water in certain quantities is not biosafe.”
The context in which the company operates suggests some other concerns. Although SRM would likely make a poor weapon, at least on short time scales, it is a powerful and world-shaping technology nonetheless. In that way, it’s not so far from nuclear weapons. And while the world has found at least one way to govern that technology — the nonproliferation regime — Israel has bucked it. It is one of only four countries in the world to have never signed the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. (The others are India, Pakistan, and South Sudan.) Three years ago, the UN voted 152 to 5 that Israel must give up its weapons and sign the treaty.
These concerns are not immaterial to Stardust, given Yedvab and Spector’s careers working as physicists for the government. In our interview, Yedvab stressed the company’s American connections. “We are a company registered in the U.S., working on a global problem,” he told me. “We come from Israel, we cannot hide it, and we do not want to hide it.” But the firm itself has “no ties with the Israeli government — not with respect to funding, not with respect to any other aspect of our work,” he said. “It’s the second chapter in our life,” Spector said.
Stardust may not be connected to the Israeli government, but some of its funders are. The venture capital firm AWZ, which participated in its $15 million seed round, touts its partnership with the Israeli Ministry of Defense’s directorate of defense R&D, and the fund’s strategic advisors include Tamir Pardo, the former director of the Israeli intelligence agency Mossad. “We have no connection to the Israeli government or defense establishment beyond standard regulatory or financial obligations applicable to any company operating in Israel,” a spokesperson for Stardust reiterated in a statement when I asked about the connection. “We are proud that AWZ, along with all of our investors, agrees with our mission and believes deeply in the need to address this crisis.”
One of Stardust’s stated principles is that deployment should be done under “established governance, guided by governments and authorized bodies.” But its documentation provides no detail about who those governments might be or how many governments amount to a quorum.
“The optimal case, in my view, is some kind of a multilateral coalition,” Yedvab said. “We definitely believe that the U.S. has a role there, and we expect and hope also the other governments will take part in building this governance structure.”
Speaking with Pasztor, I observed that the United States and Israel’s actions often deviate sharply from what the rest of the world might want or inscribe in law. What if they decided to conduct geoengineering themselves? “This gets into a pretty hairy geopolitical discussion, but it has to be had,” Pasztor told me. He had discussed similar issues with the company, he said, adding that “at just about every meeting he had” with the team, Stardust’s leaders hoped to “disassociate and distance themselves” from the current Israeli government. “Even when there were suggestions in my recommendations that the first step is to work through ‘your government’ — their thinking was, Okay, we will do it with the Americans,” he said.
He also discussed with the team the risks of the United States going it alone and pursuing stratospheric aerosol injection by itself. That would produce an enormous backlash, Pasztor warned, especially when the Trump administration “is doing everything contrary to what one should do” to fight climate change. “And then doing the U.S. and Israel together — given the current double geopolitical context — that would be even worse,” he said. (“Of course, they could get away with it,” he added. “Who can stop the U.S. from doing it?”)
And that hints at perhaps the greatest risk of Stardust’s existence: that it prevents progress on climate change simply because it will discourage countries from cutting their fossil fuel use. Solar geoengineering’s biggest risk has long seemed to be this moral hazard — that as soon as you can dampen the atmospheric effects of climate change, countries will stop caring about greenhouse gas emissions. It’s certainly something you can imagine the Trump administration doing, I posed to Yedvab.
Yedvab acknowledged that it is a “valid argument.” But the world is so off-track in meeting its goals, he said, that it needs to prepare a Plan B. He asked me to imagine two different scenarios, one where the world diligently develops the technology and governance needed to deploy solar geoengineering over the next 10 years, and another where it wakes up in a decade and decides to crash toward solar geoengineering. “Now think which scenario you prefer,” he said.
Perhaps Stardust will not achieve its goals. Its proprietary particle may not work, or it could prove less effective than sulfates. The company claims that it will disclose its particle once it receives its patent — which could happen as soon as next year, Yedvab and Spector said — and perhaps that process will reveal some defect or other factor that means it is not truly biosafe. The UN may also try to place a blanket ban on geoengineering research, as some groups hope.
Yet Stardust’s mere existence — and the “free driver” problem articulated by Barrett nearly two decades ago — suggests that it will not be the last to try to develop geoengineering technology. There is a great deal of interest in SRM in San Francisco’s technology circles; Pastzor told me that he saw Reflective as “not really different” from Stardust outside of its nonprofit status. “They’re getting all the money from similar types of funders,” he said. “There is stuff happening and we need to deal with it.” (A Reflective representative disputed this characterization, saying that the nonprofit publishes its funders and has no financial incentive to support geoengineering deployment.)
For those who have fretted about climate change, the continued development of SRM technology poses something of a “put up or shut up” moment. One of the ideas embedded in the concept of “climate change” is that humanity has touched everywhere on Earth, that nowhere is safe from human influence. But subsequent environmental science has clarified that, in fact, the Earth has not been free of human influence for millennia. Definitely not since 1492, when the flora and fauna of the Americas encountered those of Afro-Eurasia for the first time — and probably not since human hunters wiped out the Ice Age’s great mammal species roughly 10,000 years ago. The world has over and over again been remade by human hands.
Stardust may not play the Prometheus here and bring this particular capability into humanity’s hands. But I have never been so certain that someone will try in our lifetimes. We find ourselves, once again, in the middle of things.
Editor’s note: This story has been updated to include a response from the Reflective team.
Log in
To continue reading, log in to your account.
Create a Free Account
To unlock more free articles, please create a free account.
This transcript has been automatically generated.
Subscribe to “Shift Key” and find this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.
You can also add the show’s RSS feed to your podcast app to follow us directly.
Robinson Meyer:
Hello, it’s Friday, October 2, and this is a special New York Climate Week edition of Shift Key. Last week, Heatmap welcomed climate and energy leaders, experts, and influencers to Heatmap House, our all-day summit in New York City. Among those leaders was New Jersey Governor Mikie Sherrill. Governor Sherrill is a former Navy pilot, federal prosecutor, and member of the House of Representatives. She was elected New Jersey’s governor in November 2025. That campaign, and her election year last year, was dominated by the state’s surging electricity prices, and specifically by how the interaction between the AI data center boom and features of the local multi-state electricity market, PJM, had caused power bills to surge in the state by about $260 per household.
Robinson Meyer:
Governor Sherrill ran on and implemented a one-year rate freeze. She’s since passed other legislation meant to make it easier to build solar and batteries in the state. My colleague, Heatmap correspondent Matthew Zeitlin, has been covering those policies, and last week he sat down at Heatmap House to discuss them with Governor Sherrill, as well as to discuss the future of her climate and electricity agenda. Let’s go to that conversation now.
Robinson Meyer:
Matt and Governor Sherrill were recorded in front of a live audience at Heatmap House at 22 Vanderbilt in New York City on September 23rd. I’m Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap News, and you are listening to Shift Key.
Matthew Zeitlin:
Mikie Sherrill, thanks. Thanks so much for coming across the Hudson this morning to join us. Let’s just start with, I think, the kind of electricity or energy policy issue most associated with you. Is there a rate freeze in New Jersey right now? And are your constituents, the rate payers, are they still angry about their electricity bills?
Mikie Sherrill:
That’s a great question. So, yes, there is a rate freeze. In fact, that was a commitment I made. And so I didn’t, I would say less than an hour into my administration, the middle of my inaugural address, I declared a state of emergency on utility costs, froze rates, and then at the same time signed executive orders to increase power generation across our state. We’ve been at it ever since. And the movements we’ve made will save New Jersey rate payers over a billion dollars a year as we are implementing all of these changes. And, but no, rate payers are not happy in New Jersey, nor should they be, because rates did go up double digits. So they saw a large increase. And, you know, in large part, there had been a lot of people asleep at the wheel on how we were going to move forward in advanced technologies and generate more power and drive down costs.
Matthew Zeitlin:
So as I understand it, a component of those executive orders was taking some of the funding that comes from the regional greenhouse gas market and putting that into rate relief. You know, there is stuff on any New Jersey ratepayers bill that funds things that are government programs, energy programs. Have you rethought kind of both the RGGI and the societal benefits charges to think about why are we adding stuff onto the bill instead of, you know, making it cheaper?
Mikie Sherrill:
So we actually have taken stuff off the bill. There was an incentive on our bill that had been in place for years to incentivize our utility companies to join PJM. Well, they joined PJM years ago and they weren’t going to leave. So we took that off the bill and we just did that to drive down costs. We did use a little bit of our Reggie friends because there had been some rate cases that had already been made in the previous administration that we had to address so that we could keep rates flat to meet our commitment. What we’ve really done, though, that I’m very excited about with some RGGI funds is to put $100 million incentives into solar and battery storage projects so that we can see more generation in these clean power technologies. And I think that’s something that we’re going to see. EDA has just been putting that at our economic development authorities. So we’re very excited about what’s coming.
Matthew Zeitlin:
Yeah. And then just kind of building off of that. Obviously, New Jersey has aggressive climate commitments. How do you talk to your how you’re going to meet those climate commitments when they’re, I think everyone would say they’re most concerned right now about kind of that number on the bottom of their bill.
Mikie Sherrill:
Certainly. Look, we have, you know, when I say we have an affordability crisis, it’s not just one thing. It’s a crisis because it’s everything. Housing prices are up in some cases by 60% in some towns in the last five years. We have utility costs up by double digits last year. They were set to go up double digits this year until I froze them. We have, you know, the federal government’s cutting health care. So we have 70,000 people that can’t afford to be in the affordable care market anymore. We have about 300,000 people who are being kicked off the Medicaid rolls that we have to deal with. So there is a crisis going on. So you cannot simply say to people, you know, sorry, your bills are just going to keep skyrocketing. That is not the answer, which is why we’ve acted so aggressively.
Mikie Sherrill:
I approved 18 solar and battery storage projects in the first six months because we knew the federal credits were going to run out if we did not get that done. So that’s why we had to take on permitting reform right away to make sure we were growing that. I lifted a 50-year nuclear moratorium.
Mikie Sherrill:
We have continued to look at new and innovative things. A lot of people are talking about virtual power plants to get more capacity and drive-down costs. We are implementing that. I would suggest, and we were talking a little bit about this before we went on, it was so interesting. I’m one of one of the very few people that actually ran in 2025. So we knew the landscape. We knew what Trump was ending. We knew what the future looked like. We knew what we could and couldn’t do and spaces that we’d have opportunity and where opportunity was shut off from us. So we we could hit the ground running. And we also took advantage of best in class people.
Mikie Sherrill:
We have, she’s sitting right there, Maddie, who’s worked in New Jersey Power and understands it very deeply. We have Elizabeth Knoll, who came out of the federal government, who worked for Granholm and now is working for New Jersey. We have amazing people who are developing these new and innovative things. And I think the reason that New Jersey has now become a market leader in how you advance clean energy in a really innovative way is because we’ve just set up this government. So everything’s starting from, okay, where are we and how do we get to a better place and taking on all those new innovations.
Matthew Zeitlin:
Yeah, I mean, we were talking backstage, you know, when I took this job three years ago, I had no idea I’d be writing so much about energy policy in the state of New Jersey, but from the campaign and then, you know, in your first year here, there’s been so much going on. Obviously, we need to talk about data centers, you know, not too long ago. New Jersey had a program, a tax, you know, abatement, a tax incentive to attract data centers to the state. Obviously, there’s been a lot of local backlash to them. There was an enforcement action, I think, this morning in Vineland, New Jersey. That tax incentive has, I believe, been reversed. From your perspective now, if a data center developer wants to set up in New Jersey, what do they need to do?
Mikie Sherrill:
Well, we’ve laid out exactly what they need to do. They need to bring their own energy. They need to invest in our grid. They need to report their water and power usage. They need to hire good talent so that they create jobs in the community. And they need to bring community benefits. We’ve also put them in their own rate class, so they are not harming other rate payers. And we mean business. And I think you can see that with the action we brought against the Vineland data center. So this is not a free ride for anyone. If they want to engage in building this out, it has to be a benefit to our communities in New Jersey.
Mikie Sherrill:
What was so interesting to me, I was telling you about different financing agencies and different power generators and what this was going to look like going forward. And it was so fascinating to me to see the difference between the old and new. Some people at the table are saying, oh, you know, people are saying don’t invest in New Jersey because labor cost of labor is high. And I said, that is so fascinating. You’re telling me that because I have heard from so many people about how they’re dying to invest in New Jersey and they want to know how. And I said, yeah, we’re a labor state. You’re going to have to pay for talent. But at the same time, we are laying out exactly how you invest in New Jersey to take a lot of the risk out of it. But you have to come to the table early. You can’t just come in and say, work out some deal in back rooms and come say, now I’m going to plop a data center here.
Mikie Sherrill:
I mean, there are places in New Jersey where you should not be building data centers. There are places in New Jersey where it might make sense, but the towns and communities are going to decide that. So you have to start engaging early with them to explain what you want to do and why you want to do it. And finally, I’ve said, and you’ve, I told a data center, I said, and you guys have been horrible at it. I’m just telling you, nobody knows what a data center is and you need to explain why it’s even important. Are you curing cancer? You know, what are you doing? Why is this a societal benefit. And then I’ll end by saying, look, it’s up to businesses. They make money, right? Scientists innovate. Government needs to protect people. And that’s where government has been asleep at the wheel. And that’s why I think you see so many people not trusting innovation right now or where it’s going, because government needs to protect people from these downside risks. And right now, I would say the federal government’s not going to do it, which is why as a state, we are engaging so aggressively.
Matthew Zeitlin:
So obviously we were talking about this backstage, New Jersey has this great history of innovation technological development, and right now you have a lot of advanced industries in New Jersey — a pharmaceutical industry, financial services you have a lot of research around the Princeton National Lab. When you’re trying to attract these kind of next generation industries how do you then kind of, on the other way, how do you kind of assure them that they can set up large energy consuming facilities that, you know, are that anchor those industries?
Mikie Sherrill:
It’s kind of interesting twofold. I would say to a large extent, we don’t need to attract some of these innovators. We need to keep them. Innovation starts in New Jersey. We have a million different spinoffs. We were talking about they’ll do fusion and they’ve already got the magnets that are found few places in the world. I mean, they come and spun off from the National Lab at Princeton. We have companies like that all over the state. And we have states like New Mexico that are constantly saying, you know, here, come here. And people in New Jersey, and if you’re not from New Jersey, this may surprise you, but people in New Jersey love New Jersey and we want to stay there. And we want our kids to go to the great schools there and we want to continue to grow businesses. So companies don’t want to leave New Jersey. We just have to make sure they have enough, you know, that there’s not some other incentive driving them away.
Mikie Sherrill:
At the same time, when you say, how can I assure that people are going to have all the power they want, we are creating a structure so that people can make sure that they have clean power generation. That’s why something like a virtual power plant is so interesting. But it is not on the state to kind of assure you can do whatever the heck you want in power generation. It is up to the companies to work with us to say, okay, I want to invest in this. This is going to be a net good for the people of New Jersey. So for example, I’m going to build a virtual power plant. I’m going to have battery packs in everyone’s basement. I’m going to pay them to do that. And we’re going to generate new clean power for this entity. That is how they need to come to work.
Mikie Sherrill:
And I would again say that that was what was so interesting at the table, because there are people who get that. In some of the most innovative power generating companies, in some of the most innovative technological companies, they get that. They know where this is all going. Some of the old school companies are still sort of coming to the table saying, what can you do for me? That’s not where we are right now. We need to understand what benefit can you bring to the people of New Jersey.
Matthew Zeitlin:
And you mentioned earlier that, you know, your gubernatorial race was in 2025. We obviously have the midterms coming up in November, and then we have, you know, another election in 2028. What, when Democratic candidates come to you and ask about how they should talk about energy and electricity policy, or if they’re not coming to you and you would like to say something to them, what are you telling them? How they, you know, obviously every state, every district’s different, but what are some … What are some things you learned in 2025 that could be applied elsewhere in the country?
Mikie Sherrill:
Sure. I just want to go back one second. I know we’re on such limited time. That’s why I’m speaking fast. I would say the reason I was saying what can you bring to New Jersey is because the business case has been made for innovation technologies, and they are raking in billions of dollars. And we just need to make sure that as we build out these systems, that it goes to a benefit to everyone, that we are not simply funneling billions, trillions of dollars into a few people in Silicon Valley. We want to make sure this is a net good. That’s what I said government does, is we protect communities from those downside risks and we invest and create opportunity there. That’s what we’re looking to do, is making sure everybody gains here.
Mikie Sherrill:
The thing I would tell people who are running is you have to be nimble, You have to be innovative and you have to be aggressive and you can’t, you have to take risks. The status quo is not working for anyone. The can has been kicked down the road on too many different issues. And if you were going to try to duck your head and say some mealy mouth thing like, you know, we’re going to do all of the above and, you know, and it’s, you know, everyone’s welcome and we like business. That’s not going to cut it. you have to be able, I mean, we charged through the campaign by understanding deeply what was going on in our state. And so we were joking. I would say, you know, a lot of people in the whole market couldn’t tell you what PJM is, right? Still, a lot of governors probably couldn’t really delineate it. We knew everything about everybody because when your utility bill goes up by double digits, the person you’re going to hire to be the no boss of your state better understand why. And exactly what they can do to fix that.
Mikie Sherrill:
And then I have to convince people, because the final thing I’d say is, I’d say since Reagan, this idea of like government’s always the problem, get them out of the way and everything goes well, has come to its logical conclusion, right? There are areas where we need government to function, and we need government to function well, not just to sort of regulate stuff to actually drive innovation, to drive success for people, to drive opportunity, and make sure the rising tide lifts all boats. That’s what has been missing in so many cases. And so I think if you want to run for us, if you want to hold the public trust, if you want to be a public servant, then you need to engage deeply and you need to be really good at your job. And that means telling people exactly what you can do to make their lives better.
Matthew Zeitlin:
I think that’s probably as good a note as any to end on. Mikie Sherrill, thank you so much.
Mikie Sherrill:
Well, thank you. I really appreciate it.
Matthew Zeitlin talks with the New Jersey leader at Heatmap House at New York Climate Week.
Governor Mikie Sherrill is a former Navy pilot, federal prosecutor, and a member of the U.S. House of Representatives. She was elected New Jersey's governor in November 2025 in a campaign dominated by the state’s surging electricity prices.
For this episode of Shift Key, Governor Sherrill joined Heatmap correspondent Matthew Zeitlin for a live conversation at our Heatmap House event, part of New York Climate Week. She reflected on electricity inflation, power markets, and what a data center developer would need to do to build in New Jersey.
Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap News.
Subscribe to “Shift Key” and find this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.
You can also add the show’s RSS feed to your podcast app to follow us directly.
Here is an excerpt from their conversation:
Matthew Zeitlin: So obviously — we were talking about this backstage — New Jersey has this great history of innovation technological development. And right now you have a lot of advanced industries in New Jersey — a pharmaceutical industry, financial services you have a lot of research around the Princeton National Lab. When you’re trying to attract these kind of next generation industries, how do you kind of assure them that they can set up large energy-consuming facilities that anchor those industries?
Mikie Sherrill: It’s kind of interesting, twofold. I would say to a large extent, we don’t need to attract some of these innovators, we need to keep them. Innovation starts in New Jersey. We have a million different spinoffs. We were talking about, they’ll do fusion, and they’ve already got the magnets that are found few places in the world. I mean, they come and spun off from the National Lab at Princeton. We have companies like that all over the state. And we have states like New Mexico that are constantly saying, you know, here, come here. And people in New Jersey — and if you’re not from New Jersey, this may surprise you — but people in New Jersey love New Jersey, and we want to stay there. And we want our kids to go to the great schools there and we want to continue to grow businesses. So companies don’t want to leave New Jersey. We just have to make sure they have enough, you know, that there’s not some other incentive driving them away.
At the same time, when you say, how can I assure that people are going to have all the power they want? We are creating a structure so that people can make sure that they have clean power generation. That’s why something like a virtual power plant is so interesting. But it is not on the state to kind of assure you can do whatever the heck you want in power generation. It is up to the companies to work with us to say, okay, I want to invest in this. This is going to be a net good for the people of New Jersey. So for example, I’m going to build a virtual power plant. I’m going to have battery packs in everyone’s basement. I’m going to pay them to do that. And we’re going to generate new clean power for this entity. That is how they need to come to work.
And I would again say that that was what was so interesting at the table, because there are people who get that. In some of the most innovative power generating companies, in some of the most innovative technological companies, they get that. They know where this is all going. Some of the old school companies are still sort of coming to the table saying, what can you do for me? That’s not where we are right now. We need to understand what benefit can you bring to the people of New Jersey.
You can find a full transcript of the episode here.
Mentioned:
Matthew on Governor Sherrill’s electricity rate freeze
Previously on Shift Key: Energy Secretary Chris Wright on Trump’s Pro-Nuclear, Pro-Fossil Fuel Agenda
Previously on Shift Key: Al Gore on AI, ‘An Inconvenient Truth,’ and the Biggest Surprises of the Past 20 Yearst 20 Years
This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by ...
Formed through a joint venture between Wärtsilä and RCT Solutions, Valo helps utilities, independent power producers, and developers navigate market and grid complexity without sacrificing system performance. Learn more at valoenergy.com.
RE+ 26 is the largest clean energy event in North America, happening November 16th through 19th at the Las Vegas Convention Center. Register at re-plus.com and use code SHIFTKEY20 to save 20% off a Full Conference pass.
Every year Giving Green researches the top climate nonprofits and sends 100% of every dollar donated to its Giving Green Fund straight to them. Make your first gift before the new year, and it will be matched up to $500. Go to GivingGreen.earth/Shift.
The bill would let states and utilities discriminate against data centers and crypto miners, requiring them to pay higher rates to cover the full cost of any system upgrades.
Call it the data center double tap.
A wonky set of provisions in the Senate’s bipartisan permitting deal would rewrite federal electricity law to allow states and utilities to discriminate against artificial intelligence data centers and crypto miners for the first time.
The proposal would force AI data centers to pay for any new transmission infrastructure required to serve them — while still paying full freight to use the rest of the power grid. It could even let states require the facilities to subsidize other customers’ power rates.
Senator Martin Heinrich, the ranking Democrat on the Senate energy committee, mentioned the provisions during a press event announcing the deal on Wednesday, but they have so far attracted less attention than the bill’s other measures.
If enacted, the bill will “mean that we actually require big load centers — whether that’s a factory or a data center — to not pass those costs on to the American consumer by statute, not suggestion,” he said.
The bill arguably goes further than that summary. It creates new carve-outs in federal law that disadvantage data centers and crypto miners specifically, allowing states to discriminate against them as compared to other large-scale customers. It also protects electricity customers from the future risk of data centers failing to pay their bills.
The proposal comes at an auspicious time. Utilities are already gearing up to spend tens of billions of dollars building new transmission lines and power infrastructure to meet energy demand from AI data centers. The law would seek to ensure that tech companies and data center developers bear the cost of those upgrades.
Since the data center boom got underway, just about everyone involved — tech companies, utilities, environmentalists, and even President Trump — has agreed on one thing: Normal Americans should not pay for data centers’ burden on the power system.
These expenses can be significant, especially for the transmission system. Because a single computing facility can guzzle gigawatts of energy at once, compressing a city’s worth of power demand into just a few acres, it often requires the construction of specialized new infrastructure, or it risks causing blackouts and brownouts for nearby customers.
In 2024, utility customers in the country’s largest power market paid $4.3 billion for transmission upgrades to supply data centers, according to a Union of Concerned Scientists report.
Trump enshrined guarantees against these payments in his Ratepayer Protection Pledge in March. That document vowed that data center companies must pay for all of the electricity used to run their facilities, any new power plants required to generate that electricity, and any “new power delivery infrastructure upgrades.”
There’s just one issue: Under federal law, the last part of that pledge is nearly impossible.
Since the early 1990s, federal law has prohibited utilities from charging customers for both the cost of using specific transmission infrastructure and the cost of using the rest of the power grid.
The origins of that ban go back to a 1992 case where a power plant in one utility’s service area wanted to sell electricity to a neighboring utility. The local utility wanted to charge it the “normal” cost of using its power grid, plus a special fee to cover the cost of crowding its own customers off the necessary transmission lines.
The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission ruled that was illegal. Instead, it said, utilities could make a customer pay for the “incremental” cost of using specific transmission lines, such as those built to service their facility. Or they could charge for the “embedded” costs of the existing power grid.
Utilities could not charge customers for both “incremental and embedded” costs, it said; instead, utilities had to choose the higher of the two. FERC formalized the policy in 1994.
Electricity law has changed significantly since then, and those FERC rules don’t apply to power plants, Ari Peskoe, the director of the Electricity Law Initiative at Harvard Law School, told me.
But the ban still applies to electricity customers — even very big ones, like data centers. Peskoe wrote a Utility Dive article in April credited with first identifying the clash between the FERC rules, the data center boom, and the White House’s pledge.
The rules have serious implications for energy affordability. In practice, virtually every utility today is charging data centers for the “embedded” cost of using the existing grid, Peskoe told me. That’s because utilities want to avoid fights with each data center about which transmission upgrade costs are “incremental” and which are “embedded.”
Instead, utilities are forcing all of their customers to pay for the cost of transmission upgrades to serve those data centers. That means data centers will likely drive up normal Americans’ electricity rates for the next decade or so, even if officials, lawmakers, and tech companies say they don’t want that to happen.
The Senate proposal would change this, instructing FERC to require utilities to charge data centers for the cost of any new grid upgrades required to serve them as well as the costs of the underlying grid. In other words, it would mandate data centers pay for embedded and incremental costs.
These types of customers “should incur the full cost of the transmission service they require,” the bill says. This change would apply narrowly to data centers, crypto mining operations, and any facilities doing AI training — essentially discriminating against data centers under federal law.
The bill would also write a new section into the Federal Power Act that would require data centers, crypto miners, and other computing facilities larger than 20 megawatts to cover the entire cost of their service. The bill says utilities can’t spread the cost of providing energy or building infrastructure for data centers to any other customer.
If data centers leave a contract early, they will still have to pay for the full cost of those grid upgrades. And before a utility can upgrade any of their infrastructure to serve a data center, it must get “financial assurances or contributions” from that facility to cover the costs of doing so.
The bill also allows states to go further than these provisions — they can discriminate against data centers, set special rates by which data centers subsidize other customers’ power rates, and auction off the right to connect to the power grid.
Since I’ve learned about these provisions, I’ve struggled with what to call them. They aren’t quite a new tax on data centers, because the government does not collect the revenue. But many of them have tax-like qualities: They impose significant new costs on future data centers that would then be used to pay for upgrades to the broader power grid, and they protect the power system from the downside risks of a data center bust. They also allow for cross-subsidy of the power system, where payments from data centers can reduce everyone else’s electricity rates.
The law would bring federal rules governing electricity somewhat closer to those that already exist for natural gas, though it goes much further than those rules, too. Since 1999, FERC has generally assumed new interstate natural gas pipelines should be entirely paid for in an “incremental” way, meaning that new shippers or customers are supposed to bear the costs of service expansion alone. Having customers pay for embedded and incremental pricing remains illegal under federal natural gas law.
When combined with other provisions in the bill — such as those that make building new interstate transmission lines much easier — the new policies could help spur a large-scale buildout of electricity infrastructure paid for by the data center boom.
But even setting that more ambitious potential aside, the law would cover existing holes in the laws protecting Americans from paying for the data center boom.“I think it’s an improvement on the status quo,” Peskoe told me. “I think it’s consistent with data centers paying their ‘fair share,’ and consistent with the text of the Ratepayer Protection Pledge.”
And it is also “consistent,” he added, “with how normal people might think about these issues.”