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In aligning with fossil fuel companies, the administration is deepening skepticism of carbon removal.

For as long as people have been talking about building machines that suck carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, the concept has sparked fierce debate. Would such a tool be used the way that scientists envision — alongside aggressive emission cuts? Or would it be co-opted to prolong dependence on fossil fuels?
Suddenly these questions have become less theoretical. Last month, Carbon Engineering, one of the first companies to actually build a “direct air capture” machine, was acquired by Occidental Petroleum, a fossil fuel company that plans to use the technology to market “net-zero oil.” The Biden administration has also selected Occidental as a potential recipient of one of two major grants, worth up to $600 million each, to build a “DAC hub” in South Texas near Corpus Christi. As part of the same announcement, the Department of Energy gave funding to oil and gas companies in California, Alaska, and Alabama for the early planning stages of additional hubs.
“Cutting back on our carbon emissions alone won’t reverse the growing impacts of climate change," Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm said in a press release for the DAC hub awards. "We also need to remove the CO2 that we’ve already put in the atmosphere,”
She’s right. The UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says pursuing carbon removal is “unavoidable” if the world hopes to limit warming to safer temperatures — but it will only work if we stop burning so much oil and gas. In handing the reins of this new industry to fossil fuel companies, the administration has confused the message, stoking the mistrust of those already skeptical of the technology, and giving carbon removal projects with no fossil fuel connections a steeper hill to climb to earn support.
It hasn’t helped that Occidental’s CEO, Vicki Hollub, has described DAC as a “license to continue to operate.” Shortly after the Biden administration’s announcement, she told NPR that thanks to this technology, “there’s no reason not to produce oil and gas forever.” When I reached out to Occidental for clarification, a spokesperson denied that the company will use the technology to pump more oil than it otherwise would. He pointed me to another statement from Hollub in 2022 where she said producing net-zero oil was about “just meeting demand,” and that as long as there was demand for oil, it was better to meet it with a lower-carbon product.
But the aforementioned events have invited fierce blowback. On Wednesday, 17 climate and environmental justice organizations sent a letter to Secretary Granholm calling on the DOE to revoke its funding offers to fossil fuel companies. “There may be paths forward for equitable, climate-positive DAC, but they do not look like the one we’re on now,” they wrote.
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Climate advocates and community groups are not just concerned about giving fossil fuel companies a license to keep producing. Their objection is tied to where these projects are being deployed. The DAC hubs are almost all being planned in economically distressed areas that have hosted fossil fuel production for decades. The bipartisan infrastructure law, which funded the hubs, requires that at least two meet those characteristics.
This makes some economic and political sense. If you need to build pipelines to transport CO2 or drill into the ground to store it, this is where the knowhow resides. The requirement is also intended as a way to create new jobs and transition workers in places that might otherwise be devastated by the decline of the oil and gas industry. But since fossil fuel companies have a track record of polluting these areas with cancerous chemicals and fighting regulations, locals worry about the risks of putting new technology into their hands.
These fears are not unfounded. There are different types of direct air capture technology, but many require energy or heat to separate and compress the CO2 after it is collected, which could create additional pollution depending on how it is generated. The compressed carbon may then have to be transported, via pipeline, to its final destination. While CO2 pipelines have a good safety record, a highly publicized accident in Mississippi that hospitalized 45 people has fanned fears of ruptures.
Perhaps the biggest worry is around what happens next. Some companies, including Occidental, inject CO2 into depleted oil fields in an effort to squeeze the last drops out. But DOE-funded hubs will not be permitted to do this. Instead, the compressed CO2 will likely be injected into a saline aquifer, a layer of permeable rock thousands of feet underground, which is capped by an impermeable layer that prevents the CO2 from leaking out.
Some geological storage wells have been storing carbon successfully for decades, but there are only a handful of such sites operating around the world. A recent report to Congress detailing U.S. experience with CO2 injection summarized several potential risks to human health associated with it, including drinking water contamination, leaks, effects on soil health, and earthquakes. However, it also noted that CO2 injection wells have more stringent construction, testing, and monitoring regulations than other types.
In Kern County, California, where three DAC hubs have been proposed, all of this invokes deja vu. Juan Flores, an organizer for the Center on Race, Poverty and the Environment, one of the signatories to Wednesday’s letter, told me it reminds people of fracking, which brought increased risk of respiratory problems, cancer, preterm birth, and psychological stress to the area. “They experimented with our communities, they denied the new dangers for many years,” he said. “Now our community members are saying, ‘this again?’”
The DOE hubs program required companies to submit a plan for providing community benefits when they applied for funding. But in Kern County, oil and gas companies have squandered their goodwill, Dan Ress, a staff attorney at the Center told me. For example, the California Resources Corporation, an oil and gas company that won an $11 million DOE grant to do an engineering study for a hub in Kern County, recently supported a multi-million dollar campaign to repeal hard-won regulations banning oil drilling next to homes and schools. “This is the same company saying, oh yeah, we want to be good neighbors and do great community benefits? Absolutely not, get out of here,” said Ress.
The feeling of being the unwitting subjects of an experiment also came up in my conversation with Roishetta Ozane, a community organizer in Lake Charles, Louisiana. That’s where another DAC hub called Project Cypress, which could receive up to $600 million from the DOE, is under development. “We don't want to be guinea pigs for something that's never been tried and tested before on this scale,” Ozane told me.
Ozane is the director of the Vessel Project, a grassroots group supporting the needs of black, indigenous, people of color, and low income people in an industrial city where petrochemical production has dramatically expanded over the past decade. (The group was not a signatory on the letter.) She said Lakes Charles is overburdened with pollution and still recovering from a spate of destructive hurricanes in 2020. “We're saying, hey, you might be right. These DAC hubs might work. But why are you testing it in our community?”
There are no fossil fuel companies involved in Project Cypress. But that does not give Ozane any peace of mind. She worries it would “open the floodgates” for companies to keep releasing toxic emissions into the area, as long as they pay someone to pull carbon out of the air afterward.
Multiple people I spoke with in Louisiana and Texas also brought up a history of local officials giving heavy industry a free pass on pollution and major tax breaks. Why should they believe that the DAC hubs will be any better regulated or bring in much-needed revenue?
But local attitudes along the Gulf Coast are varied and complex. Prior to the hubs announcement, Data for Progress, a polling and research non-profit that spearheaded Wednesday’s letter, held a series of focus groups about DAC in Louisiana and Texas. One key finding, Celina Scott-Buechler, a senior fellow who led the research, told me, was that there was a tension between concerns like Ozane’s, and an awareness that fossil fuel companies historically have been the primary sources of good jobs in these communities.
“I think people make a calculated risk decision,” one focus group participant in Lake Charles said. “They're like, oh, so I could be around these chemicals that could have a long-term effect. I may not see them for the next 20, 30 years, but if it's going to take care of my family and give my family a nice home and a good vehicle to drive, then I'll work tirelessly to provide that for my family. But I may die at 65.”
Another stressed that there was a “big need for jobs” and that “sometimes people's need for employment overshadows whether it's good for the environment or not.”
Patrick Nye, who lives in the Corpus Christi area near where Occidental is building its South Texas hub, embodies this tension. Nye owns an energy company that produces oil and generates wind power, but he also runs an environmental group that’s fighting the local expansion of liquified natural gas export facilities and proposed seawater desalination projects. When I asked about his oil business, he said he didn’t have the heart to let his employees go and puts his profits toward his activism.
Nye is skeptical that direct air capture will work, but he thinks it’s worth trying. “If this works, this may help save the planet,” he said. He also sees a lot of potential opportunities flowing to the local university and its graduates. And he thinks the hub will be far enough away from where people live that if things go wrong, few will be impacted. Occidental is building its hub in a largely undeveloped area about 45 miles south of Corpus Christi on King Ranch, the largest private ranch in the country.
At the same time, he’s worried local officials will just rubber stamp the project without proper study. “King Ranch is really well known, they're very politically positioned,” he said. “They have a lot of clout to get this thing done, and it has to be looked at with a very fine tooth comb.”
In addition to requesting DOE withdraw grants for fossil fuel companies, the letter sent Wednesday makes a pitch for how the agency can roll out the DAC hubs program more equitably. The authors propose that projects in areas with extractive industries be co-created or co-owned by communities, actively work to reduce local pollution, have rigorous data transparency, and that locals should have the right to refuse them. They also want community benefits plans to be legally binding, with consequences if companies fail to comply.
All these requirements might sound unfair to companies who are just trying to tackle climate change and make a better world, Scott-Buechler acknowledged. “The question that I ask is, a better world for whom?”
I asked her what it would look like in practice for a community to co-own a DAC hub, considering these are first-of-a-kind projects that are incredibly expensive and financially risky. Would communities be taking on those risks?
This was something that Data for Progress and other groups were still studying, she said, looking at possibilities like having the project held in public trust, or replicating the solar cooperative model. She recognizes that not all communities will be interested in ownership, but thinks it should be an option.
When I asked the DOE how it defends the choice to support fossil fuel company-led projects, a spokesperson told me the agency is “leveraging these companies' significant expertise in managing large energy infrastructure projects and applying this experience to developing DAC projects that are cost-effective, efficient, equitable, and environmentally responsible.”
She also emphasized that Occidental and Project Cypress have only been selected for “award negotiation” and not “officially” awarded yet. “If projects are awarded, DOE and the awardee will have frequent, meaningful engagement with the impacted local community and impacted workers throughout the lifecycle of the project,” she said.
Meanwhile, the agency has also launched a public process to develop a set of safety, environmental stewardship, accountability, and community engagement guidelines for all carbon management projects that it will encourage project developers to (voluntarily) abide by.
But the Biden administration seems eager to support Occidental in its pursuit of direct air capture and encourage more oil and gas companies to follow its lead. During a carbon capture conference last year, Secretary Granholm applauded Oxy’s CEO Vicki Hollub for investing in carbon removal, saying this reflects “exactly the kind of bold thinking we need more of.” Earlier this year, she told a room of oil and gas executives, “We need the energy sector stepping up … few are better positioned to crack open cost-effective carbon management.”
The debate over whether direct air capture is a moral hazard is likely to rage on long after these projects are up and running. But the money is going out the door now. “This is something that is not just coming anymore, it's here,” said Scott Buechler. “Is there a collective vision for what might be able to come next?”
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Current conditions: Thick fog in South Carolina caused a 50-car pileup on Interstate-95 in which dozens were injured • Tropical Storm Choi-wan was upgraded to “severe” status as the cyclone tracks north of the Northern Mariana Islands toward Japan’s remote Ogasawara archipelago • In the Atlantic, Tropical Storm Hanna is moving northeast toward the Azores, but may weaken before hitting the Portuguese islands.
Almost exactly two years ago, nuclear energy had its Big Tech glow-up. Amazon took an equity stake in X-energy, a developer of helium-cooled small modular reactors. Google invested in Kairos Power, another fourth-generation SMR designer that uses molten salt as a coolant. Microsoft, meanwhile, agreed to pay $16 billion to restart the functioning reactor at Constellation Energy’s Crane Clean Energy Center, formerly known as Three Mile Island. With electricity demand now surging, however, hyperscalers are increasingly following the more conservative Microsoft playbook. Google, as I previously told you, backed plans to bring Iowa’s lone nuclear plant, NextEra Energy’s Duane Arnold station, online again. Facebook-owner Meta — in addition to investments in two next-generation reactor companies, Oklo and TerraPower — inked a deal to buy nuclear electricity from two of utility Vistra’s plants in Ohio and Pennsylvania for the next 20 years.
Now Amazon is securing itself a chunk of the nation’s existing nuclear fleet. This week, the retail and web-hosting giant signed its own 20-year deal to buy power from Constellation’s Calvert Cliffs Clean Energy Center in Maryland, committing more than $3 billion in investments to upgrade the two-reactor facility that will allow the operators to squeeze out another 190 megawatts of capacity on top of the existing 1.8 gigawatts. “This agreement demonstrates how private investment can strengthen critical energy infrastructure,” Constellation CEO Joe Dominguez said in a statement. “Amazon’s commitment supports the long-term operation of Calvert Cliffs for generations to come.”
Fervo Energy announced Thursday morning that it had started selling power from its flagship debut power plant ahead of schedule this week, marking the completion of the world’s first enhanced geothermal generating station just 23 months after construction began. Six days after synchronizing to the grid, Cape Station brought in its first revenue, fulfilling its power purchase agreement with Shell Energy North America with electricity from its first 33-megawatt unit of what will ultimately be a 500-megawatt facility. The commercial milestone came one day before Fervo’s contract required it to sell its first electrons. “Reaching commercial operations at Cape Station is both a huge milestone for Fervo and a turning point for the entire energy industry,” Fervo CEO Tim Latimer said in a statement. “No team has ever built a project like this anywhere in the world, and we did it ahead of schedule. We are excited to prove that Fervo Energy can bring a new track record of execution to the power sector, an industry where project delays are often the norm.” Fervo’s stock price, a hot commodity when it hit the Nasdaq this spring, closed nearly 7% higher on Thursday.
Other companies want to replicate that stock market success. As I exclusively reported yesterday, Controlled Thermal Resources, a geothermal power and critical mineral startup developing a project on the shores of California’s Salton Sea, converted debt from the automaker Stellantis to equity ahead of a planned IPO via a merger with a special purpose acquisition company, or SPAC.

In May, the long-duration storage startup Antora brought one of the world’s largest batteries online at a South Dakota ethanol plant, converting cheap surplus wind power from the grid into heat that stays insulated inside solid carbon blocks at temperatures exceeding 3,632 degrees Fahrenheit, or 2,000 degrees Celsius, and can be released to pump out as much as 5 gigawatt-hours of electricity. Now, with the $550 million I told you in July that it had raised to fund its expansion, the company is going even bigger. On Thursday, Antora announced plans for a nearly 6 gigawatt-hour project at Pratt Energy’s biorefinery in Pratt, Kansas. “Once complete, this project will be one of the largest battery storage systems in the world, delivering 24/7 energy that makes Pratt Energy’s operations more competitive,” Andrew Ponec, Antora’s co-founder and chief executive, wrote in a post on LinkedIn. “And I’m especially proud of the partnerships we’ve built with the Pratt community on local hiring, internships, and scholarships.”
With demand for long-duration storage that doesn’t lose charge like lithium-ion batteries skyrocketing, there are clear signs the market is primed to rip. On Thursday, the iron-sodium battery startup Inlyte Energy announced its first commercial project, supplying power to Berkshire East Mountain Resort’s snow-making machines during ski seasons without enough fresh powder. The 80-megawatt-hour project, one of two long-duration storage projects backed by a state program in Massachusetts, is expected to come online in 2028. “The Berkshire East project shows what becomes possible when Inlyte’s iron-sodium battery does more than one job,” Ben Kaun, Inlyte’s chief commercial officer, said in a press release. “Its efficient, long-duration capability enables clean power during demanding snowmaking peaks, makes better use of renewable electricity, and keeps a critical community resource operating when the grid goes down.” Long-duration storage is one area where the U.S. hopes to gain an edge. With scaled-up versions of electric vehicle batteries now occupying the fastest-growing niche in the global power market, China commands 95% of the sector, the Financial Times reported yesterday.
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As I told you yesterday, President Donald Trump is seesawing over whether to temporarily ban U.S. exports of diesel, holding crisis talks as he weighs the merits of a brief and uncertain price reprieve for Americans at the cost of a catastrophic price shock in Europe. On Thursday, Reuters reported that the White House is pressing the European Union to release 120 million barrels of diesel. The administration told German and French officials to draw down emergency diesel inventories to help ease global fuel prices or face a U.S. export ban.
Exactly a year ago, the Department of Energy canceled hundreds of grants totaling more than $8 billion, a move the agency later admitted in court was “based solely” on whether the project was located in a state that voted for Kamala Harris in 2024. Now over 60% of those projects remain stuck in administrative limbo, nearly 70% of retained awards have received negligible funding in the past six months, and billions in funding to 1,700 newly identified projects remain “quietly ghosted” without any communications, according to an analysis published this morning by the alumni network of former Energy Department staffers and the watchdog group Lawyers for Good Government. “The U.S. Department of Energy has not been acting in good faith when it comes to grantees working on climate-based solutions,” Jillian Blanchard, the senior vice president of climate change and environmental justice at Lawyers for Good Government, said in a statement.
The Energy Department isn’t the only agency attracting fresh scrutiny for terminating grants for clean energy in the early days of the current Trump administration. Last month, federal district court judges in Rhode Island and the District of Columbia ruled within days of each other that the Environmental Protection Agency had illegally terminated funding promised to low-income Americans to help finance rooftop solar panels from the Biden-era Solar for All program. Now that the $7 billion program is poised to begin flowing again, recipients who were made to wait are suing the Trump administration for damages over the pause. The termination “was devastating on so many levels,” Kerry O’Neill, chief executive of program grantee Inclusive Prosperity Capital, told Utility Dive. Her organization, tasked with using the money to get panels to eligible Americans, had to cut back on staffing. Now it’s “going back and building these teams back up,” she told the trade publication. “We had fully approved work plans, very detailed plans. Our products are designed, sitting, ready to go. It would obviously take time to pull our coalition back together and get on everybody’s work queue. But this is a group that’s super passionate.” The EPA said it was reviewing the suit.
The trillion-dollar question in Washington right now is whether the Senate will actually vote to pass the bipartisan permitting reform bill unveiled yesterday. (Read my colleagues’ super-comprehensive breakdown of the legislation here.) But Wednesday showed that the Senate is perfectly capable of finding consensus when the chamber passed the Wildfire Emissions Prevention Act with unanimous approval. The bill would make it easier for states to deal with wildfire emissions, promote efficient use of air quality resources, and ensure that states won’t face federal penalties for taking action to curb blazes. “Utah has faced a devastating fire season, and we know that preventing catastrophic wildfires starts with giving land managers the tools to reduce hazardous fuels before they burn,” Senator John Curtis, a Republican from Utah, said in a statement. “Prescribed fire works, and states should not be penalized for responsibly using it to protect communities, forests, and air quality.”
Matthew Zeitlin talks with the New Jersey leader at Heatmap House at New York Climate Week.
Governor Mikie Sherrill is a former Navy pilot, federal prosecutor, and a member of the U.S. House of Representatives. She was elected New Jersey's governor in November 2025 in a campaign dominated by the state’s surging electricity prices.
For this episode of Shift Key, Governor Sherrill joined Heatmap correspondent Matthew Zeitlin for a live conversation at our Heatmap House event, part of New York Climate Week. She reflected on electricity inflation, power markets, and what a data center developer would need to do to build in New Jersey.
Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap News.
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Here is an excerpt from their conversation:
Matthew Zeitlin: So obviously — we were talking about this backstage — New Jersey has this great history of innovation technological development. And right now you have a lot of advanced industries in New Jersey — a pharmaceutical industry, financial services you have a lot of research around the Princeton National Lab. When you’re trying to attract these kind of next generation industries, how do you kind of assure them that they can set up large energy-consuming facilities that anchor those industries?
Mikie Sherrill: It’s kind of interesting, twofold. I would say to a large extent, we don’t need to attract some of these innovators, we need to keep them. Innovation starts in New Jersey. We have a million different spinoffs. We were talking about, they’ll do fusion, and they’ve already got the magnets that are found few places in the world. I mean, they come and spun off from the National Lab at Princeton. We have companies like that all over the state. And we have states like New Mexico that are constantly saying, you know, here, come here. And people in New Jersey — and if you’re not from New Jersey, this may surprise you — but people in New Jersey love New Jersey, and we want to stay there. And we want our kids to go to the great schools there and we want to continue to grow businesses. So companies don’t want to leave New Jersey. We just have to make sure they have enough, you know, that there’s not some other incentive driving them away.
At the same time, when you say, how can I assure that people are going to have all the power they want? We are creating a structure so that people can make sure that they have clean power generation. That’s why something like a virtual power plant is so interesting. But it is not on the state to kind of assure you can do whatever the heck you want in power generation. It is up to the companies to work with us to say, okay, I want to invest in this. This is going to be a net good for the people of New Jersey. So for example, I’m going to build a virtual power plant. I’m going to have battery packs in everyone’s basement. I’m going to pay them to do that. And we’re going to generate new clean power for this entity. That is how they need to come to work.
And I would again say that that was what was so interesting at the table, because there are people who get that. In some of the most innovative power generating companies, in some of the most innovative technological companies, they get that. They know where this is all going. Some of the old school companies are still sort of coming to the table saying, what can you do for me? That’s not where we are right now. We need to understand what benefit can you bring to the people of New Jersey.
You can find a full transcript of the episode here.
Mentioned:
Matthew on Governor Sherrill’s electricity rate freeze
Previously on Shift Key: Energy Secretary Chris Wright on Trump’s Pro-Nuclear, Pro-Fossil Fuel Agenda
Previously on Shift Key: Al Gore on AI, ‘An Inconvenient Truth,’ and the Biggest Surprises of the Past 20 Yearst 20 Years
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This transcript has been automatically generated.
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Robinson Meyer:
Hello, it’s Friday, October 2, and this is a special New York Climate Week edition of Shift Key. Last week, Heatmap welcomed climate and energy leaders, experts, and influencers to Heatmap House, our all-day summit in New York City. Among those leaders was New Jersey Governor Mikie Sherrill. Governor Sherrill is a former Navy pilot, federal prosecutor, and member of the House of Representatives. She was elected New Jersey’s governor in November 2025. That campaign, and her election year last year, was dominated by the state’s surging electricity prices, and specifically by how the interaction between the AI data center boom and features of the local multi-state electricity market, PJM, had caused power bills to surge in the state by about $260 per household.
Robinson Meyer:
Governor Sherrill ran on and implemented a one-year rate freeze. She’s since passed other legislation meant to make it easier to build solar and batteries in the state. My colleague, Heatmap correspondent Matthew Zeitlin, has been covering those policies, and last week he sat down at Heatmap House to discuss them with Governor Sherrill, as well as to discuss the future of her climate and electricity agenda. Let’s go to that conversation now.
Robinson Meyer:
Matt and Governor Sherrill were recorded in front of a live audience at Heatmap House at 22 Vanderbilt in New York City on September 23rd. I’m Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap News, and you are listening to Shift Key.
Matthew Zeitlin:
Mikie Sherrill, thanks. Thanks so much for coming across the Hudson this morning to join us. Let’s just start with, I think, the kind of electricity or energy policy issue most associated with you. Is there a rate freeze in New Jersey right now? And are your constituents, the rate payers, are they still angry about their electricity bills?
Mikie Sherrill:
That’s a great question. So, yes, there is a rate freeze. In fact, that was a commitment I made. And so I didn’t, I would say less than an hour into my administration, the middle of my inaugural address, I declared a state of emergency on utility costs, froze rates, and then at the same time signed executive orders to increase power generation across our state. We’ve been at it ever since. And the movements we’ve made will save New Jersey rate payers over a billion dollars a year as we are implementing all of these changes. And, but no, rate payers are not happy in New Jersey, nor should they be, because rates did go up double digits. So they saw a large increase. And, you know, in large part, there had been a lot of people asleep at the wheel on how we were going to move forward in advanced technologies and generate more power and drive down costs.
Matthew Zeitlin:
So as I understand it, a component of those executive orders was taking some of the funding that comes from the regional greenhouse gas market and putting that into rate relief. You know, there is stuff on any New Jersey ratepayers bill that funds things that are government programs, energy programs. Have you rethought kind of both the RGGI and the societal benefits charges to think about why are we adding stuff onto the bill instead of, you know, making it cheaper?
Mikie Sherrill:
So we actually have taken stuff off the bill. There was an incentive on our bill that had been in place for years to incentivize our utility companies to join PJM. Well, they joined PJM years ago and they weren’t going to leave. So we took that off the bill and we just did that to drive down costs. We did use a little bit of our Reggie friends because there had been some rate cases that had already been made in the previous administration that we had to address so that we could keep rates flat to meet our commitment. What we’ve really done, though, that I’m very excited about with some RGGI funds is to put $100 million incentives into solar and battery storage projects so that we can see more generation in these clean power technologies. And I think that’s something that we’re going to see. EDA has just been putting that at our economic development authorities. So we’re very excited about what’s coming.
Matthew Zeitlin:
Yeah. And then just kind of building off of that. Obviously, New Jersey has aggressive climate commitments. How do you talk to your how you’re going to meet those climate commitments when they’re, I think everyone would say they’re most concerned right now about kind of that number on the bottom of their bill.
Mikie Sherrill:
Certainly. Look, we have, you know, when I say we have an affordability crisis, it’s not just one thing. It’s a crisis because it’s everything. Housing prices are up in some cases by 60% in some towns in the last five years. We have utility costs up by double digits last year. They were set to go up double digits this year until I froze them. We have, you know, the federal government’s cutting health care. So we have 70,000 people that can’t afford to be in the affordable care market anymore. We have about 300,000 people who are being kicked off the Medicaid rolls that we have to deal with. So there is a crisis going on. So you cannot simply say to people, you know, sorry, your bills are just going to keep skyrocketing. That is not the answer, which is why we’ve acted so aggressively.
Mikie Sherrill:
I approved 18 solar and battery storage projects in the first six months because we knew the federal credits were going to run out if we did not get that done. So that’s why we had to take on permitting reform right away to make sure we were growing that. I lifted a 50-year nuclear moratorium.
Mikie Sherrill:
We have continued to look at new and innovative things. A lot of people are talking about virtual power plants to get more capacity and drive-down costs. We are implementing that. I would suggest, and we were talking a little bit about this before we went on, it was so interesting. I’m one of one of the very few people that actually ran in 2025. So we knew the landscape. We knew what Trump was ending. We knew what the future looked like. We knew what we could and couldn’t do and spaces that we’d have opportunity and where opportunity was shut off from us. So we we could hit the ground running. And we also took advantage of best in class people.
Mikie Sherrill:
We have, she’s sitting right there, Maddie, who’s worked in New Jersey Power and understands it very deeply. We have Elizabeth Knoll, who came out of the federal government, who worked for Granholm and now is working for New Jersey. We have amazing people who are developing these new and innovative things. And I think the reason that New Jersey has now become a market leader in how you advance clean energy in a really innovative way is because we’ve just set up this government. So everything’s starting from, okay, where are we and how do we get to a better place and taking on all those new innovations.
Matthew Zeitlin:
Yeah, I mean, we were talking backstage, you know, when I took this job three years ago, I had no idea I’d be writing so much about energy policy in the state of New Jersey, but from the campaign and then, you know, in your first year here, there’s been so much going on. Obviously, we need to talk about data centers, you know, not too long ago. New Jersey had a program, a tax, you know, abatement, a tax incentive to attract data centers to the state. Obviously, there’s been a lot of local backlash to them. There was an enforcement action, I think, this morning in Vineland, New Jersey. That tax incentive has, I believe, been reversed. From your perspective now, if a data center developer wants to set up in New Jersey, what do they need to do?
Mikie Sherrill:
Well, we’ve laid out exactly what they need to do. They need to bring their own energy. They need to invest in our grid. They need to report their water and power usage. They need to hire good talent so that they create jobs in the community. And they need to bring community benefits. We’ve also put them in their own rate class, so they are not harming other rate payers. And we mean business. And I think you can see that with the action we brought against the Vineland data center. So this is not a free ride for anyone. If they want to engage in building this out, it has to be a benefit to our communities in New Jersey.
Mikie Sherrill:
What was so interesting to me, I was telling you about different financing agencies and different power generators and what this was going to look like going forward. And it was so fascinating to me to see the difference between the old and new. Some people at the table are saying, oh, you know, people are saying don’t invest in New Jersey because labor cost of labor is high. And I said, that is so fascinating. You’re telling me that because I have heard from so many people about how they’re dying to invest in New Jersey and they want to know how. And I said, yeah, we’re a labor state. You’re going to have to pay for talent. But at the same time, we are laying out exactly how you invest in New Jersey to take a lot of the risk out of it. But you have to come to the table early. You can’t just come in and say, work out some deal in back rooms and come say, now I’m going to plop a data center here.
Mikie Sherrill:
I mean, there are places in New Jersey where you should not be building data centers. There are places in New Jersey where it might make sense, but the towns and communities are going to decide that. So you have to start engaging early with them to explain what you want to do and why you want to do it. And finally, I’ve said, and you’ve, I told a data center, I said, and you guys have been horrible at it. I’m just telling you, nobody knows what a data center is and you need to explain why it’s even important. Are you curing cancer? You know, what are you doing? Why is this a societal benefit. And then I’ll end by saying, look, it’s up to businesses. They make money, right? Scientists innovate. Government needs to protect people. And that’s where government has been asleep at the wheel. And that’s why I think you see so many people not trusting innovation right now or where it’s going, because government needs to protect people from these downside risks. And right now, I would say the federal government’s not going to do it, which is why as a state, we are engaging so aggressively.
Matthew Zeitlin:
So obviously we were talking about this backstage, New Jersey has this great history of innovation technological development, and right now you have a lot of advanced industries in New Jersey — a pharmaceutical industry, financial services you have a lot of research around the Princeton National Lab. When you’re trying to attract these kind of next generation industries how do you then kind of, on the other way, how do you kind of assure them that they can set up large energy consuming facilities that, you know, are that anchor those industries?
Mikie Sherrill:
It’s kind of interesting twofold. I would say to a large extent, we don’t need to attract some of these innovators. We need to keep them. Innovation starts in New Jersey. We have a million different spinoffs. We were talking about they’ll do fusion and they’ve already got the magnets that are found few places in the world. I mean, they come and spun off from the National Lab at Princeton. We have companies like that all over the state. And we have states like New Mexico that are constantly saying, you know, here, come here. And people in New Jersey, and if you’re not from New Jersey, this may surprise you, but people in New Jersey love New Jersey and we want to stay there. And we want our kids to go to the great schools there and we want to continue to grow businesses. So companies don’t want to leave New Jersey. We just have to make sure they have enough, you know, that there’s not some other incentive driving them away.
Mikie Sherrill:
At the same time, when you say, how can I assure that people are going to have all the power they want, we are creating a structure so that people can make sure that they have clean power generation. That’s why something like a virtual power plant is so interesting. But it is not on the state to kind of assure you can do whatever the heck you want in power generation. It is up to the companies to work with us to say, okay, I want to invest in this. This is going to be a net good for the people of New Jersey. So for example, I’m going to build a virtual power plant. I’m going to have battery packs in everyone’s basement. I’m going to pay them to do that. And we’re going to generate new clean power for this entity. That is how they need to come to work.
Mikie Sherrill:
And I would again say that that was what was so interesting at the table, because there are people who get that. In some of the most innovative power generating companies, in some of the most innovative technological companies, they get that. They know where this is all going. Some of the old school companies are still sort of coming to the table saying, what can you do for me? That’s not where we are right now. We need to understand what benefit can you bring to the people of New Jersey.
Matthew Zeitlin:
And you mentioned earlier that, you know, your gubernatorial race was in 2025. We obviously have the midterms coming up in November, and then we have, you know, another election in 2028. What, when Democratic candidates come to you and ask about how they should talk about energy and electricity policy, or if they’re not coming to you and you would like to say something to them, what are you telling them? How they, you know, obviously every state, every district’s different, but what are some … What are some things you learned in 2025 that could be applied elsewhere in the country?
Mikie Sherrill:
Sure. I just want to go back one second. I know we’re on such limited time. That’s why I’m speaking fast. I would say the reason I was saying what can you bring to New Jersey is because the business case has been made for innovation technologies, and they are raking in billions of dollars. And we just need to make sure that as we build out these systems, that it goes to a benefit to everyone, that we are not simply funneling billions, trillions of dollars into a few people in Silicon Valley. We want to make sure this is a net good. That’s what I said government does, is we protect communities from those downside risks and we invest and create opportunity there. That’s what we’re looking to do, is making sure everybody gains here.
Mikie Sherrill:
The thing I would tell people who are running is you have to be nimble, You have to be innovative and you have to be aggressive and you can’t, you have to take risks. The status quo is not working for anyone. The can has been kicked down the road on too many different issues. And if you were going to try to duck your head and say some mealy mouth thing like, you know, we’re going to do all of the above and, you know, and it’s, you know, everyone’s welcome and we like business. That’s not going to cut it. you have to be able, I mean, we charged through the campaign by understanding deeply what was going on in our state. And so we were joking. I would say, you know, a lot of people in the whole market couldn’t tell you what PJM is, right? Still, a lot of governors probably couldn’t really delineate it. We knew everything about everybody because when your utility bill goes up by double digits, the person you’re going to hire to be the no boss of your state better understand why. And exactly what they can do to fix that.
Mikie Sherrill:
And then I have to convince people, because the final thing I’d say is, I’d say since Reagan, this idea of like government’s always the problem, get them out of the way and everything goes well, has come to its logical conclusion, right? There are areas where we need government to function, and we need government to function well, not just to sort of regulate stuff to actually drive innovation, to drive success for people, to drive opportunity, and make sure the rising tide lifts all boats. That’s what has been missing in so many cases. And so I think if you want to run for us, if you want to hold the public trust, if you want to be a public servant, then you need to engage deeply and you need to be really good at your job. And that means telling people exactly what you can do to make their lives better.
Matthew Zeitlin:
I think that’s probably as good a note as any to end on. Mikie Sherrill, thank you so much.
Mikie Sherrill:
Well, thank you. I really appreciate it.