Sign In or Create an Account.

By continuing, you agree to the Terms of Service and acknowledge our Privacy Policy

Podcast

Are Democrats the Party of Nuclear Now?

Rob and guest host Jillian Goodman talk atomic politics with Third Way’s Josh Freed.

Nuclear reactors and solar panels.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

Over the past two months, the country’s biggest tech companies have announced a flurry of deals with advanced and conventional nuclear companies. At the same time, Democratic candidates running for federal office — including Kamala Harris and a handful of Senate candidates — have touted their support of building new nuclear power plants. Has nuclear’s moment finally arrived?

On this week’s episode of Shift Key, we have Josh Freed, the senior vice president of Third Way’s climate and energy program, discussing why nuclear might be about to boom, why Democrats are embracing nuclear, and whether a Trump administration could derail the investments. This episode of Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jillian Goodman, Heatmap’s deputy editor.

Shift Key co-host Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University, is out this week.

Subscribe to “Shift Key” and find this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can also add the show’s RSS feed to your podcast app to follow us directly.

Here is an excerpt from our conversation:

Robinson Meyer: There’s a set of conflicting facts, or slightly contradicting pieces of analysis about this that I believe can all be accommodated together, but I’m still trying to understand how they all fit together. Which is at this point, when we look at the sources of power demand growth in the U.S., as we’ve covered on Shift Key, demand for electricity in the U. S. is rising now for the first time in 20 years. It’s a big deal.

When you look at where that demand growth is coming from, very little of it — or not a ton of it — is actually coming from data centers. It’s coming from EVs, it’s coming from new factories, it’s coming from electrification, it’s coming from air conditioning, it’s coming from all these more typical sources of demand growth in the economy — lots of places, by the way, where we want demand to grow. Because part of how we’re going to transition is that we’re going to move people from combusting fossil fuels to using electricity.

The IEA also just said in a report — it’s big global wrap of energy — last week that it was not very concerned about data centers for AI driving energy scarcity because data centers ultimately are only going to use, even in a high-growth situation, they’ll only use as much electricity as desalination plants. And, yeah, these tech companies are acting as if … Microsoft is seemingly acting as if it’s ready to pay between four and five times the market cost for electricity for the next 20 years because of how much it anticipates its power needs going up.

So on the one hand, data centers are not driving electricity demand growth. On the other hand, they do seem to be driving this new set of deals. How do we work that out?

Josh Freed: Yeah, look, I think the first thing: My approach to all of these issues is the reality — having worked in the energy and climate space since 2009 — is that it is a very humbling sector. And whatever assumptions we’re operating under today are going to be proven wildly wrong in a year or two or five years. So the simplest answer is, we just don’t know. And I think that companies like Microsoft and Google and Amazon are looking at the potential need for a significant amount of clean, firm electricity in specific parts of the grid, and saying, Let’s get ahead of this and ensure that as we’re planning, we have clean electricity in the right places, built at roughly the timeframe we expect need to escalate significantly, so that we have certainty for planning purposes.

And in some cases there’s, I think, also the expectation that there is enough electricity demand growth, both domestically and in other advanced or rapidly modernizing economies, that being a partner with an advanced nuclear company or another company that is going to be able to provide a lot more electricity is a win-win for them.

This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by …

Watershed’s climate data engine helps companies measure and reduce their emissions, turning the data they already have into an audit-ready carbon footprint backed by the latest climate science. Get the sustainability data you need in weeks, not months. Learn more at watershed.com.

As a global leader in PV and ESS solutions, Sungrow invests heavily in research and development, constantly pushing the boundaries of solar and battery inverter technology. Discover why Sungrow is the essential component of the clean energy transition by visiting sungrowpower.com.

Intersolar & Energy Storage North America is the premier U.S.-based conference and trade show focused on solar, energy storage, and EV charging infrastructure. To learn more, visit intersolar.us.

Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow.

Yellow

You’re out of free articles.

Subscribe today to experience Heatmap’s expert analysis 
of climate change, clean energy, and sustainability.
To continue reading
Create a free account or sign in to unlock more free articles.
or
Please enter an email address
By continuing, you agree to the Terms of Service and acknowledge our Privacy Policy
Climate Tech

Climate Tech Pivots to Europe

With policy chaos and disappearing subsidies in the U.S., suddenly the continent is looking like a great place to build.

A suitcase full of clean energy.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

Europe has long outpaced the U.S. in setting ambitious climate targets. Since the late 2000s, EU member states have enacted both a continent-wide carbon pricing scheme as well as legally binding renewable energy goals — measures that have grown increasingly ambitious over time and now extend across most sectors of the economy.

So of course domestic climate tech companies facing funding and regulatory struggles are now looking to the EU to deploy some of their first projects. “This is about money,” Po Bronson, a managing director at the deep tech venture firm SOSV told me. “This is about lifelines. It’s about where you can build.” Last year, Bronson launched a new Ireland-based fund to support advanced biomanufacturing and decarbonization startups open to co-locating in the country as they scale into the European market. Thus far, the fund has invested in companies working to make emissions-free fertilizers, sustainable aviation fuel, and biofuel for heavy industry.

Keep reading...Show less
Green
AM Briefing

Belém Begins

On New York’s gas, Southwest power lines, and a solar bankruptcy

COP30.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

Current conditions: The Philippines is facing yet another deadly cyclone as Super Typhoon Fung-wong makes landfall just days after Typhoon Kalmaegi • Northern Great Lakes states are preparing for as much as six inches of snow • Heavy rainfall is triggering flash floods in Uganda.


THE TOP FIVE

1. UN climate talks officially kick off

The United Nations’ annual climate conference officially started in Belém, Brazil, just a few hours ago. The 30th Conference of the Parties to the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change comes days after the close of the Leaders Summit, which I reported on last week, and takes place against the backdrop of the United States’ withdrawal from the Paris Agreement and a general pullback of worldwide ambitions for decarbonization. It will be the first COP in years to take place without a significant American presence, although more than 100 U.S. officials — including the governor of Wisconsin and the mayor of Phoenix — are traveling to Brazil for the event. But the Trump administration opted against sending a high-level official delegation.

Keep reading...Show less
Blue
Climate Tech

Quino Raises $10 Million to Build Flow Batteries in India

The company is betting its unique vanadium-free electrolyte will make it cost-competitive with lithium-ion.

An Indian flag and a battery.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

In a year marked by the rise and fall of battery companies in the U.S., one Bay Area startup thinks it can break through with a twist on a well-established technology: flow batteries. Unlike lithium-ion cells, flow batteries store liquid electrolytes in external tanks. While the system is bulkier and traditionally costlier than lithium-ion, it also offers significantly longer cycle life, the ability for long-duration energy storage, and a virtually impeccable safety profile.

Now this startup, Quino Energy, says it’s developed an electrolyte chemistry that will allow it to compete with lithium-ion on cost while retaining all the typical benefits of flow batteries. While flow batteries have already achieved relatively widespread adoption in the Chinese market, Quino is looking to India for its initial deployments. Today, the company announced that it’s raised $10 million from the Hyderabad-based sustainable energy company Atri Energy Transitions to demonstrate and scale its tech in the country.

Keep reading...Show less
Green