Sign In or Create an Account.

By continuing, you agree to the Terms of Service and acknowledge our Privacy Policy

Podcast

Trump, China, and Climate Change: What Happens Next?

Jesse and Rob download with Johns Hopkins professor Jeremy Wallace.

Xi Jinping.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

The rollbacks are coming. Donald Trump’s incoming administration is expected to pull the United States out of the Paris Agreement, weaken the Environmental Protection Agency’s rules for power plants and tailpipe pollution, and — potentially — rewrite or repeal big swaths of the Inflation Reduction Act. Each of those actions would seem to provide an opening for the world’s No. 1 polluter — China — to assert global leadership and zip ahead in the next generation of clean energy technology.

How will it respond? On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Rob and Jesse chat with Jeremy Wallace, the A. Doak Barnett Professor of China Studies at Johns Hopkins University. Wallace, a Heatmap contributor, helps us understand how China is thinking about Trump, the current state of China’s economy, and why China sometimes flexes its climate leadership — but just as often doesn’t. Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University.

Subscribe to “Shift Key” and find this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can also add the show’s RSS feed to your podcast app to follow us directly.

Here is an excerpt from our conversation:

Jesse Jenkins: While we have no idea what is in Trump’s head, he does have a set of voices around him. To the degree that you can see and briefly summarize those camps, Jeremy, what, what do you … What is he going to be hearing? What are the dominant intellectual threads, or self-interested economic-motivated threads that he’s likely to hear from different parts of his coalition?

Jeremy Wallace: I would say three different camps. There will be as many as different advisors, but I think summarizing it into three different camps is helpful. There’s a Lighthizer camp that … Lightizer comes out of the steel industry, and thinking about domestic steel manufacturing and national security. So that’s a camp, and that’s a tariff, tariff, tariff world. We can China decouple in order to reduce their power.

There’s a Musk camp, who is probably just singular, that is simultaneously extremely kind of right-wing in its orientation, but also runs a multi-trillion-dollar company that is principally Chinese-produced, and Chinese demand — not only, by any means, but is a major portion of that business. And then there is the, there are the Wall Street billionaires that we’re talking about as Treasury Secretary, where there is an interest in continued economic relations and not destroying U.S. credibility to pay its own debts, to make sure that the economy continues to run.

And I think all of those would have very different views about what U.S.-China policy should be. There’s a Pentagon wing, right? There’s all kinds of other voices, as well. But I think from Trump world, I think those are probably the three principal voices that he actually cares about. And I don’t know what the right … I don’t know what the policies will be, other than my guess is that there would be a lot of cycling between those three different views.

This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by …

Watershed’s climate data engine helps companies measure and reduce their emissions, turning the data they already have into an audit-ready carbon footprint backed by the latest climate science. Get the sustainability data you need in weeks, not months. Learn more at watershed.com.

As a global leader in PV and ESS solutions, Sungrow invests heavily in research and development, constantly pushing the boundaries of solar and battery inverter technology. Discover why Sungrow is the essential component of the clean energy transition by visiting sungrowpower.com.

Intersolar & Energy Storage North America is the premier U.S.-based conference and trade show focused on solar, energy storage, and EV charging infrastructure. To learn more, visit intersolar.us.

Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow.

Green

You’re out of free articles.

Subscribe today to experience Heatmap’s expert analysis 
of climate change, clean energy, and sustainability.
To continue reading
Create a free account or sign in to unlock more free articles.
or
Please enter an email address
By continuing, you agree to the Terms of Service and acknowledge our Privacy Policy
Spotlight

New Lawsuit Threatens Michigan’s Permitting Reform Law

The state’s landmark legislation to overrule local opposition to renewable energy is being challenged by over 70 local jurisdictions.

Michigan’s Anti-NIMBY Law
Heatmap Illustration / Getty Images

The most important legal challenge for the renewables industry in America may have just been filed in Michigan.

On Friday afternoon, about 70 towns and a handful of Michigan counties appealed the rule implementing part of a new renewable energy siting law – PA 233 – providing primary permitting authority to the Michigan Public Services Commission and usurping local approval powers in specific cases, Heatmap can first report. The law was part of a comprehensive permitting package passed last year by the state legislature and seen by climate advocates as a potential model for combatting NIMBYs across the country.

Keep reading...Show less
Economy

Trump’s Other Big Threat to Renewables

Whatever happens to the Inflation Reduction Act, high interest rates could still hurt.

Donald Trump.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

The Federal Reserve’s interest rate cuts were supposed to be a bonanza for the clean energy business. Renewables, with their high upfront costs compared to their costs of operating (the “fuel” — i.e. the wind and the sun — is free), are especially sensitive to the cost of borrowing money. When rates go up, it becomes more difficult for projects to hit the profitability targets necessary to lure investors without jacking up prices for customers beyond the realm of the possible. When rates comes down — which the Fed has been working on doing since September — suddenly those investments start to look a lot more appealing.

But there’s more to financing costs than the Fed. There’s also the president.

Keep reading...Show less
Yellow
Climate

AM Briefing: Shell’s Victory

On big oil emissions, COP updates, and methane fees

What to Know About Shell’s Big Court Victory
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

Current conditions: The Philippines is bracing for another major storm, the fifth in under a month • Warnings are in place for Guam as Tropical Storm Man-Yi approaches • It is about 60 degrees Fahrenheit and sunny in Washington, D.C., where Congress is back in session.

THE TOP FIVE

1. Shell wins appeal to overturn landmark emissions ruling

A Dutch court has overturned a 2021 ruling that ordered oil giant Shell to significantly curb its greenhouse gas emissions. The decision is a “big set back for efforts to use the courts to compel companies to transition faster,” wrote Tom Wilson, an energy correspondent with the Financial Times. The original ruling, issued by a lower court in a case brought by Friends of the Earth and 17,000 Dutch citizens, said Shell had to reduce its emissions by 45% by 2030 compared to 2019 levels. The landmark decision marked the first time a court ordered a private company to align its efforts with the goals of the Paris Agreement. But Shell appealed, arguing that it was already working to reduce its emissions (aiming for a 15-20% reduction by 2030 compared to 2016), that it can’t be held responsible for how customers use its products, and that such rules should be made by governments, not courts. “The Dutch court case may serve as a bellwether, with potential ripple effects on future decisions across the region,” saidBloomberg. The case could go to the Dutch Supreme Court, but it would likely take years to play out.

Keep reading...Show less
Yellow