Sign In or Create an Account.

By continuing, you agree to the Terms of Service and acknowledge our Privacy Policy

Podcast

How BYD Got So Big

Rob and Jesse talk with Chinese auto market expert Michael Dunne.

A BYD car.
Heatmap Illustration/BYD

In just the past few years, Chinese EV-maker BYD has become the most important car company most Americans have still never heard of. It is China’s biggest private employer, the world’s third most valuable automaker (after Tesla and Toyota), and it’s capable of producing more than 5 million cars a year. It’s also just one of dozens of innovative new Chinese auto companies that are set to transform the global mobility market — regardless of what happens with Trump’s tariffs.

On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Jesse and Rob talk with Michael Dunne, the founder of Dunne Insights and a longtime observer of the Chinese automotive sector. Dunne was president of GM Indonesia from 2013 and 2015, and was once managing director of JD Power and Associates’ China division. We talk about the deep history of BYD, the five non-BYD Chinese car companies you should know, and how Western automakers could (with difficulty and a lot of policy help) eventually catch up.

Shift Key is hosted by Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University, and Robinson Meyer, Heatmap’s executive editor.

Subscribe to “Shift Key” and find this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can also add the show’s RSS feed to your podcast app to follow us directly.

Here is an excerpt from our conversation:

Jesse Jenkins: Is the answer tariffs? I’ll put that out there. I mean, that has been part of the answer for Europe — and in a maybe a bit more targeted way, to some degree, even for the Biden administration — but now, of course, for the Trump administration, is the central feature of competitiveness policy. Will that work? Or what are the downsides or pros and cons there?

Michael Dunne: This may sound counterintuitive and maybe even un-American, but yes, I do believe we need tariffs for the short term to buy ourselves some time. But that’s not the end of the story. We also have to get our act together in regards to innovation investment, scaling at home. So that’s the harder part. Tariffs are almost easier now.

One other thing that is worth mentioning, for sure: When I lived in China, started there in 1990. When I got there, I went to a plant called Beijing Jeep, China’s first joint venture, met the plant manager. I said, Hey, what are you doing here? Yeah, we’re importing parts from the Ohio Jeep Cherokee plant we’re putting them together here in China, and we’re distributing.

Ooh, gosh. Well, when are you going to have your own car? That’ll be about 10 years from now, he said. So that’s kind of where we are — we’re like 10 years behind them in electrics. They were 10 years behind us. So I said, How do you feel about the fact that you’re importing these parts from the U.S. and you won’t be ready for 10 more years? And he said, well, it doesn’t feel good at all, but we’ll get there.

Then shortly after that meeting, the Chinese government came out and said, how are we gonna get there? Number one, we have 100% tariffs on imports. We don’t want imports. If you want to sell into our market, you must manufacture here and you must form joint ventures. And the Chinese partner must have 50% of that joint venture. Those are some serious terms of engagement.

And so people who say, oh, tariffs are for losers, and they don’t work. Actually, if you look around at China, at Japan, at Korea, imports as a share of their markets are all under 10%. So hang on. Did we not get the memo here in America?

Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow.

Blue

You’re out of free articles.

Subscribe to access Heatmap’s expert analysis of climate change, clean energy, and sustainability. Save $57 on an annual subscription, just $156 $99/year.
To continue reading
Create a free account or sign in to unlock more free articles.
or
Please enter an email address
By continuing, you agree to the Terms of Service and acknowledge our Privacy Policy
Daily Briefing

Ford’s Fathom? Drive!

Facing down a sea change, the automaker has staked its next EV bet on a compact, sporty pickup.

Ford headquarters.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

“Full fathom five, your father lies,” the invisible spirit Ariel sings early in The Tempest, as a handsome and grieving prince listens, rapt. The song tells of a shipwrecked skeleton transforming into something else — its eyes have become pearls, and its bones pink coral — as it undergoes, yes, a “sea change.” It is the first time that phrase appears in the English language.

Ford is now facing its own kind of sea change. Over the past decade, the automaker has doubled down on its most profitable and exciting vehicles — pickups, SUVs, and the Mustang muscle car — and dropped from its line-up the cheap, boring cars that once made it famous. It embraced, then backed off, the transition to electric vehicles, in part because it failed to make money from them; and it began to reckon with the surge of cheaper, cleaner, and “far superior” EVs from Chinese producers that are transforming global auto markets around the world.

Keep reading...Show less
Blue
Energy

Amazon Is Building America’s Biggest Fossil Fuel Plant to Power AI

The company confirmed its plans to market research company Cleanview.

The Amazon logo and smokestacks.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

The data center buildout has hit a new inflection point. It has long been true that artificial intelligence is fueling climate change by driving up power demand; more recently, tech companies have started directly financing new natural gas plants in their quest for AI glory. Now one is backing the biggest fossil fuel-fired power plant ever to exist in the United States — exclusively to power an AI data center complex.

That company is Amazon, according to the market research company Cleanview, which reported on Friday that the tech giant is building an AI data center campus in Texas powered by an up to 7.65-gigawatt off-grid natural gas plant.

Keep reading...Show less
Red
Climate

Which Wildfire Smoke Is Worst?

The smoke pouring into Seattle from Spokane is particularly bad, but there’s also no such thing as good smoke.

An AQI city.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

I wrote this story from inside a cloud of smoke. Owing to some funky meteorology in the Seattle area this week — a pressure ridge paired with a thermal trough — the region’s usual westerly winds reversed, causing smoke from the fires burning in the eastern half of the state to pour through the mountain passes and river valleys of the Cascades and pool over the populous Puget Sound lowlands, where I live.

Though it’s cleared up some today, I’m still running my air purifier on full blast because I know what’s in the lingering smoke. Unlike the still blazing wildfires in Ontario that are burning through mostly uninhabited forests, the smoke in the Seattle area this week came to us partially from Spokane, where the Old Trails fire razed at least 700 buildings and homes last weekend. That means that beyond the usual organic matter associated with wildfire smoke, the pollution that has hung over Seattle has likely also contained particles and chemicals from burned plastics, batteries, cars, and household appliances.

Keep reading...Show less