Sign In or Create an Account.

By continuing, you agree to the Terms of Service and acknowledge our Privacy Policy

Podcast

How BYD Got So Big

Rob and Jesse talk with Chinese auto market expert Michael Dunne.

A BYD car.
Heatmap Illustration/BYD

In just the past few years, Chinese EV-maker BYD has become the most important car company most Americans have still never heard of. It is China’s biggest private employer, the world’s third most valuable automaker (after Tesla and Toyota), and it’s capable of producing more than 5 million cars a year. It’s also just one of dozens of innovative new Chinese auto companies that are set to transform the global mobility market — regardless of what happens with Trump’s tariffs.

On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Jesse and Rob talk with Michael Dunne, the founder of Dunne Insights and a longtime observer of the Chinese automotive sector. Dunne was president of GM Indonesia from 2013 and 2015, and was once managing director of JD Power and Associates’ China division. We talk about the deep history of BYD, the five non-BYD Chinese car companies you should know, and how Western automakers could (with difficulty and a lot of policy help) eventually catch up.

Shift Key is hosted by Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University, and Robinson Meyer, Heatmap’s executive editor.

Subscribe to “Shift Key” and find this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can also add the show’s RSS feed to your podcast app to follow us directly.

Here is an excerpt from our conversation:

Jesse Jenkins: Is the answer tariffs? I’ll put that out there. I mean, that has been part of the answer for Europe — and in a maybe a bit more targeted way, to some degree, even for the Biden administration — but now, of course, for the Trump administration, is the central feature of competitiveness policy. Will that work? Or what are the downsides or pros and cons there?

Michael Dunne: This may sound counterintuitive and maybe even un-American, but yes, I do believe we need tariffs for the short term to buy ourselves some time. But that’s not the end of the story. We also have to get our act together in regards to innovation investment, scaling at home. So that’s the harder part. Tariffs are almost easier now.

One other thing that is worth mentioning, for sure: When I lived in China, started there in 1990. When I got there, I went to a plant called Beijing Jeep, China’s first joint venture, met the plant manager. I said, Hey, what are you doing here? Yeah, we’re importing parts from the Ohio Jeep Cherokee plant we’re putting them together here in China, and we’re distributing.

Ooh, gosh. Well, when are you going to have your own car? That’ll be about 10 years from now, he said. So that’s kind of where we are — we’re like 10 years behind them in electrics. They were 10 years behind us. So I said, How do you feel about the fact that you’re importing these parts from the U.S. and you won’t be ready for 10 more years? And he said, well, it doesn’t feel good at all, but we’ll get there.

Then shortly after that meeting, the Chinese government came out and said, how are we gonna get there? Number one, we have 100% tariffs on imports. We don’t want imports. If you want to sell into our market, you must manufacture here and you must form joint ventures. And the Chinese partner must have 50% of that joint venture. Those are some serious terms of engagement.

And so people who say, oh, tariffs are for losers, and they don’t work. Actually, if you look around at China, at Japan, at Korea, imports as a share of their markets are all under 10%. So hang on. Did we not get the memo here in America?

Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow.

Blue

You’re out of free articles.

Subscribe to access Heatmap’s expert analysis of climate change, clean energy, and sustainability. Save $57 on an annual subscription, just $156 $99/year.
To continue reading
Create a free account or sign in to unlock more free articles.
or
Please enter an email address
By continuing, you agree to the Terms of Service and acknowledge our Privacy Policy
Daily Briefing

What Worries Me Most About This Wildfire Smoke

We didn’t know days like this could happen. Then we learned how bad they really are.

Wildfire smoke.
Heatmap Illustration/NOAA

When I woke up this morning in Chicago, the Air Quality Index was in the 300s, and I could barely see the top of the skyscraper across the street. The weather app on my phone featured a little image of a man wearing a World War I-style full-face gas mask. That’s fun, I thought. I didn’t know it could do that.

I went downstairs. Old photographs of the city were hanging in the hotel lobby — girls playing in bathing suits next to the lake — and I realized that the haze shrouding the old Lakeshore Drive condos was in fact haze, smoke, particulate matter, and not a lens artifact. It really used to be that smoky all the time, back before the Clean Air Act. Then I glanced up and saw that the haze out the window was far worse than the century-old pollution in the picture.

Keep reading...Show less
Blue
Sparks

Microsoft Sustainability Chief Hounded by Protestors at Seattle Climate Week

“Microsoft, you can’t hide, we can see your dirty side!”

Melanie Nakagawa.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images, Katie Brigham

Protestors interrupted one of the final sessions of PNW Climate Week — a conference that brings together climate leaders across Washington, Oregon, and British Columbia — objecting to Microsoft’s rising carbon emissions from data centers and partnerships with oil and gas companies. The company’s Chief Sustainability Officer Melanie Nakagawa was having a one on one conversation with GeekWire climate reporter Lisa Stiffler at Seattle’s City Hall when protestors carrying signs reading “Microsoft’s AI pollutes” and other slogans began shouting from the audience.

I was there, having just moderated the prior panel on how to finance Washington’s clean energy ambitions. Early on there were some rumblings in the crowd from up front. “Climate leaders don’t build gas pipelines in Moses Lake,” was the first objection I heard clearly. It came shortly after Nakagawa kicked off the conversation by highlighting Microsoft’s partnership with sustainable aviation fuel startup Twelve, which recently opened its first commercial-scale SAF plant in Moses Lake, Washington. The tech giant has supported the project through a strategic investment from its Climate Innovation Fund, as well as an offtake agreement for the fuel that will help offset its emissions from employee travel.

Keep reading...Show less
Adaptation

The East Coast’s New Forever Problem

Smoke is back. Again. It’s time to make a plan.

East coast smoke.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

Heat kills more Americans than any other extreme weather event in the United States. But wildfire smoke — while not strictly “weather” — appears to kill even more. Current excess death estimates put American heat mortality at about 10,000 people per year, or possibly as high as 12,000. Recent studies on wildfire PM 2.5 exposure suggest a mortality of double that: 24,000 all-cause deaths every year.

Needless to say, wildfire smoke is definitely not something you want to inhale if you can avoid it. (And really, you should try to.) But for the 115 million Americans in the Great Lakes and Northeast regions of the country who’ve been exposed to hazardous air from the fires in Ontario and Minnesota this week, there’s a chance that the damage is already done. According to a wildfire smoke mortality estimation tool from Cornell University’s School of Public Health and the Northeast Regional Climate Center, the total mortality for this smoke event could already be as high as 424 people so far, including nearly 100 in Michigan and more than 50 in both New York and Wisconsin.

Keep reading...Show less