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Doug Burgum is, by all accounts, a normie. Compared to some of the other picks for incoming President Trump’s cabinet, the former North Dakota governor is well respected by his political colleagues; even many of the Democrats on the Energy and Natural Resources Committee seemed chummy with the former software executive during his hearing on Thursday, praising his support of the outdoor recreation economy and his conservation efforts in his state. As if to confirm the low stakes of the hearing, Burgum used his closing remarks not as a final pitch of his qualifications — but to invite his interrogators to a Fourth of July party at the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library.
That isn’t to say that the hearing doesn’t have consequences — or revelations about what can be expected from the all-but-certain-to-be-confirmed Interior secretary and future head of Trump’s National Energy Council. For many in the renewables space — particularly those in the wind industry — there was little in the way of reassurances that Burgum would temper his boss’ opposition to “windmills.” Additionally, the future Interior secretary dodged questions seeking reassurance about his commitment to protecting federal lands.
Below are some of the biggest takeaways from Thursday’s confirmation hearing.
Burgum referenced concerns about the “baseload” of the grid more than 15 times during the hearing, primarily as a way to oppose the buildout of renewable energy. “We’re short of electricity in this country, and we have to make sure that we have a balance,” he told Senator Catherine Cortez Masto, a Nevada Democrat, citing a standard Republican talking point about how the grid needs safeguards because “the sun doesn’t always shine and the wind doesn’t always blow.” When pressured about how intermittent energy sources are used in combination with storage, he added that we’re still “a few years out” from such technologies and warned that in the meantime, there would be “more and more brownouts and blackouts because we aren’t going to have the balance in the grid.”
“I don’t want the word ‘baseload’ to be code for no renewables,” Angus King, the Independent Senator from Maine, later followed up. Burgum protested against that characterization — “It’s not for any political reasons that I distinguish [between intermittent and baseload], it’s just because of the physics of the grid” — but King wasn’t satisfied. “In your case, in North Dakota, 35% of your electricity comes from wind power,” King said. “I presume that your grid works well?”
Burgum stumbled in his answer: “It’s super stressed, as it is around the country,” he said. (In fact, transmission bottlenecks seem to be the bigger issue in the state.) He went on to say that renewables plus storage equals a baseload at a “much higher cost” than traditional energy sources like oil and gas.
“It sounds like no more renewables,” King rejoined. “I don’t think that’s a sustainable path for this country, and it’s certainly not a way of meeting the challenge of climate change.”
One carbon-free source of electricity emerged as a winner of the baseload fight, however: nuclear power. “I’m glad to hear you talk about baseload,” Republican Senator James Risch of Idaho told Burgum, “because when you’re talking about nuclear, you’re talking about baseload.” Burgum also called solar and geothermal “big opportunities” in Utah.
Ahead of Thursday’s confirmation hearing, Danielle Murray, the founder of the Public Lands Center, issued a statement arguing that if Burgum did not “[reject] any and all attempts to sell-off or give away our nation’s public lands,” it would be “disqualifying.”
She and other public land advocates are not likely to be satisfied with the answers they heard, however. Burgum responded positively to an opening question from Republican Senator Mike Lee of Utah about restricting the size of National Monuments, noting that “a state like yours … already has over 60% of its land in public lands.” The Energy and Natural Resources Committee’s ranking member, Democratic Senator Martin Heinrich of New Mexico, followed up on that point, asking Burgum how he plans to “stay true to our conservation history” given the mounting attempts by Lee and his colleagues to “somehow, in a wholesale way, divest of our public lands.”
Burgum remained noncommittal: “I think there is certainly the opportunity for us to find that balance going forward,” he said again.
Burgum promised senators from Montana and Wyoming that he opposed a “blanket approach of trying to block” new coal development. “We have an opportunity to decarbonize, to produce clean coal, and with that produce reliable baseload for this country,” he said.
Why is that so important? “Without baseload, we’re going to lose the AI arms race to China,” Burgum said.
Wind was another hot topic during Burgum’s confirmation hearing. King pointed out that North Dakota is a major wind-producing state, and asked if the Interior nominee would talk to President Trump about “the fact that wind has its virtues and can contribute significantly” to America’s energy supply.
Burgum was resistant. If wind projects “make sense, and they’re already in law, then they’ll continue,” he allowed. “I think President Trump has been very clear in his statements that he’s concerned about the significant amount of tax incentives that have gone towards some forms of energy that have helped exacerbate this imbalance that we’re seeing right now.”
Risch celebrated Burgum’s skepticism of wind, rooting for the end of the Lava Ridge wind farm, which Heatmap’s Jael Holzman has reported Trump may kill on day one. “My good friend Senator King and I have different views on windmills — and bless you for taking the windmills, you can have them all,” Risch offered during his allotted time. “We don’t want them in Idaho. We hate windmills in Idaho.” (In 2023, wind accounted for about 15% of Idaho’s electricity generation.)
But if there was something Republicans on the Energy and Natural Resources Committee hated even more than wind, it was bears. Senator Daines of Montana specifically requested Burgum’s commitment to delisting grizzlies from the Endangered Species List, and he got what he was looking for. “I’m with you,” Burgum said. “We should be celebrating when species come off the endangered species list, as opposed to fighting every way we can to try to keep them on that list.”
Risch was also excited about this promise. “We don’t want grizzly bears [in Idaho],” he said. “They kill people. You know, the federal government already gave us wolves.”
Grizzlies weren’t the only bears on the chopping block. Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska slammed the Biden administration’s Interior for not finishing its revised incidental take regulations for North Slope oil and gas activities — that is, the gas industry’s exemption to the Marine Mammal Protection Act of 1972 which otherwise prohibits the harassing, hunting, capturing, or killing of protected animals, including polar bears. “I need your commitment that you’ll work with Alaskans, particularly the Inupiat people up there, in the North Slope Borough, on basically all things polar bear,” Murkowski said.
“We’ll be happy to do that,” Burgum confirmed.
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And other takeaways from the confirmation hearing for Trump’s nominee for EPA administrator.
Confirmation hearings for Donald Trump’s energy and environment appointees continued Thursday, with Lee Zeldin and Doug Burgum appearing before the Senate for their nominations as Environmental Protection Agency administrator and secretary of the Interior. While Burgum was long tipped to get a major energy-related position in the Trump administration, Zeldin’s nomination was more of a surprise. While he worked on some local water and environmental issues during his time as a congressman from eastern Long Island, he was mostly known for his work on foreign and defense policy issues.
While Zeldin is likely to be confirmed thanks to the Republicans’ 53-47 Senate majority, he did not receive the same bipartisan lovefest as Chris Wright did in his hearing Wednesday for his nomination as secretary of Energy. Zeldin was formally introduced only by a Republican, Wyoming Senator John Barrasso, whereas Wright received introductions from a Democrat and Republican on the panel examining him.
Here are three takeaways from today’s proceedings:
When asked by Senator Bernie Sanders “Do you agree with President-elect Trump that climate change is a hoax?" Zeldin, a former member of the bipartisan Climate Solutions Caucus when in the House, said “I believe that climate change is real,” but then went on to say that Trump’s frequent claims, largely made during the 2016 presidential campaign, that climate change is a hoax was more a criticism of policy than a judgment of climate science.
When asked by Rhode Island Senator Sheldon Whitehouse about what effect carbon dioxide emissions had on the atmosphere, after some back and forth about listening to scientists and what obligations the EPA had to regulate carbon dioxide, Zeldin said “trapping heat.”
Throughout the hearing, Zeldin returned again and again to the idea that he wanted the EPA to focus on, as Trump often says, “clean air and clean water,” that he wanted to “increase productivity of the EPA,” and that he wanted it to be “accountable and transparent.” While this sounds like so much Washington boilerplate, it is likely a sign that Zeldin will not be advocating for any increase in the EPA’s roles or responsibilities and would try to operate the agency with budgetary and conceptual restraint.
Zeldin did not endorse a proposal to move EPA’s headquarters outside of Washington, D.C., or comments by Department of Government Efficiency co-head Vivek Ramaswamy that the government headcount should be reduced by three-quarters, instead saying “I’m not aware of a single person fired at the EPA during the first Trump administration” (many employees left under the leadership of Scott Pruitt).
Several Republican senators had specific grievances with the current — or past — Democratic EPA leadership and policy, largely around how the agency deals with local industries. Senator Todd Sullivan of Alaska criticized the EPA (in 2013) for sending armed agents to inspect a mine in Alaska; Senator Jerry Moran of Kansas was critical of “one size fits all solutions” that applied to the state’s low-productivity “stripper” oil wells; Senator John Boozman of Arkansas said the EPA agenda under Biden “was shaped by the input from narrow group of stakeholders,” and asked Zeldin “how will you work with industries more collectively to ensure that their concerns are addressed while maintaining a balanced approach to environmental protection?”
“The worst thing that I could possibly do, that the EPA could do is to turn a blind eye to great substantive feedback that will better inform our decisions,” Zeldin said, indicating that industry perspectives on environmental rules and enforcement actions will likely receive a kinder ear under Zeldin than his predecessor.
Exactly what those issues will be was not immediately clear in the hearing. Any discussion of greenhouse gas emissions had to be practically extracted from Zeldin by Democratic senators, while at the same time Zeldin would not commit to scrapping Biden-era rules on power plant and tailpipe emissions (which Trump frequently targeted on the campaign trail), instead saying that he wouldn’t “prejudge” any rule-making.
A look at the week’s biggest fights over wind and solar farms.
1. McIntosh County, Oklahoma – Say goodbye to the Canadian River wind project, we hardly knew thee.
2. Allen County, Ohio – A utility-scale project caught in the crossfires over solar on farmland and local-vs-state conflicts now appears deceased, too.
3. Albany County, Wyoming – We have a new “wind kills eagles” lawsuit to watch and it could derail a 252-megawatt project slated to be fully online next year.
4. Martin County, Kentucky – I’ve been getting complaints we’re too much of a downer in this newsletter and should praise success stories. So here’s one: a solar farm in Kentucky on a former coal site.
Here’s what else we’re watching…
In Delaware, U.S. Wind is appealing a local regulator’s decision to reject a substation for offshore wind.
In Illinois, the Panther Grove 2 utility-scale wind project just cleared its county planning commission. The project is a joint venture between Enbridge and Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners.
In North Dakota – the home state of Trump’s pick for Interior Secretary, Doug Burgum – Minnkota Power Cooperative and PRC Wind yesterday announced plans to develop a new 370-megawatt wind farm near the town of New Rockford.
In Texas, a subsidiary of Eni New Energy completed building a 200-megawatt battery storage facility just outside the southwestern city of Laredo.
In Nebraska, what would be one of the state’s largest utility-scale solar projects is facing an uphill climb with county regulators. Good luck, NextEra!
In New York and New Jersey, the cable landings for the Vineyard Mid-Atlantic offshore wind project are starting to receive federal review.
In Tennessee, a different NextEra solar project has a key county hearing scheduled for early February.
In Washington state, regulators have approved a 470-megawatt solar project in Benton County, which we’ve previously told you is home to its own massive fight over wind energy.
In California, residents are complaining to local media about a solar project potentially destroying native Joshua Trees.
In Massachusetts, the small city of Westfield is inching closer to restricting battery storage facilities in its limits.
A conversation with Cici Vu and Morgan Putnam of DNV Energy Systems
Today we’re speaking with Cici Vu and Morgan Putnam from DNV Energy Systems, who helped craft a must-read report out this week on community relations in transmission with Americans for Clean Energy Grid (ACEG). Their report compiles findings of a roundtable with environmentalists, Indigenous rights activists, developers, and individual land owners, and finds transmission can fare better than solar and wind in this current political climate – and that community benefit agreements can be helpful for getting projects across the finish line. But some issues divided the roundtable, including how to structure labor benefits to ensure lots of people get job opportunities from transmission.
The following is a lightly edited and abridged version of our conversation:
Jael: Can you walk me through what you and ACEG found as a part of your research?
Morgan: ACEG identify – like you have – that there is a realness to the community opposition that can arise with these projects. While there are clearly cases of money being spent to augment that, it doesn’t mean the opposition isn’t present. ACEG’s interest was to help make meaningful progress on this issue and figure out how we can do better to accelerate the rate at which we develop transmission. As the report calls out early on, development really proceeds at the pace of trust within a community.
Cici: There are a lot of reports out there on best practices. There are 1,500-page reports on desktop research and lots of interviews and so forth. But I think ACEG hit the nail on the head by bringing in the voices at the same table. With my expertise in mediation, we were able to do that. The recruiting of all the voices helped make the report more inclusive, and more comprehensive and more holistic in viewpoints and perspectives.
The other thing that was really important was bridging the technical aspects of these large infrastructure projects that are so complex that communities don’t understand [them.] Being able to bring the large complexities of these projects – transmission, in this case – and community needs and interest, and being able to translate and interpret and be able to talk to one another, is a core piece of this report.
The tool that gets us there is these community benefits agreements, project work agreements. And they only work well and are effective if they are co-developed with the voices, the developers, the landowners, the host communities alike.
Jael: Did you feel there was a need for a consensus on best practices for community engagement?
Cici: It’s a differentiator. It’s one of the reasons we’re doing this.
We all recognize the needs of load growth demand. But to most effectively advance some of these best practices and make them actionable, these trusted voices have to discuss and agree. Or not agree – because we have a non-consensus segment as well where there were issues that did not meet consensus. When that happened, we made a recommendation to continue the discussion toward consensus.
Jael: What issues were most difficult to find consensus on and why?
Cici: The big piece of tension was how would these projects treat workforce development [and] bring in a local workforce while balancing the needs of labor,because labor has the skills. For instance, one of the issues was that local workforces need to be up-skilled in a way that is much more structured and systematic because there are safety issues in climbing a pole and doing electrification and things like that.
Jael: At a high level, are we seeing a similar broad backlash to transmission like what we’re seeing in specific communities with solar and wind?
Morgan: No, we’re not. It could happen. But those types of things you’re referencing are not yet occurring in transmission. I think it is less likely but not impossible, because–
Jael: What about Grain Belt Express or what’s happened around Piedmont? Do those situations give you any pause?
Morgan: So Grain Belt I think a little bit but it’s in a different category in my mind. Grain Belt is a specific project and, well, just look at the MISO region where that project sits. MISO’s moving forward with a lot of transmission. That project is but one project and it is being developed by an independent transmission developer that has… I think they face additional hurdles at times by virtue of their independence.
Having said that, I think the earlier statement still applies to all transmission. It’s about trust. It’s something where I think if you have the trust and support of the communities, you’re going to be able to move the projects forward.
Cici: We’ve seen a lot of momentum in favor of longer term regional planning of transmission. We haven’t seen as much attention on the triggering words we see with solar, or wind, and the incoming administration for transmission. And we also have a lot of the load demand, which is data centers.
We’re all crossing our fingers with the incoming administration. It’s so unpredictable.