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How the litigious environmental organization squares its opposition to some renewable energy projects with its support for rapid climate action
Welcome to The Fight’s Q&A section where we’ll speak with the movers and shakers shaping every side of the debate over renewable energy deployment.
Today our subject is Patrick Donnelly, Great Basin director for the Center for Biological Diversity, an environmentalist organization at times on the plaintiff end of lawsuits against projects. I decided to speak with him about how his organization’s opposition to some projects squares with its support for rapid climate action.
The following is an abridged version of our conversation.
What would you say to someone who says the work you do is delaying climate action?
There’s a huge amount of projects in the pipeline, and it’s not likely that our level of intervention is going to materially affect the overall rollout of clean energy.
We [the U.S.] aren’t picking the right projects to pursue. No plan exists in the federal government for where that energy is going to come from, where we’re going to pick which projects to permit. And we have no filtering criteria for which to say, well, this is a good project and there’s so many problems with this project that it’s a really bad project and we shouldn’t permit.
Why do you think the government isn’t engaging organizations like CBD about which projects to pursue?
It’s not a legal obligation. It’s probably a moral obligation. If you’re going to go to 50% EVs or whatever, you better have a plan for where all the lithium is going to come from! There’s places with lower tribal conflicts, these are knowable things. We can do it next week. We also need to consolidate solar projects. There are millions of acres that don’t have tortoises on them. We have more than enough land. I could just pencil that out right now – it’s not that hard to find the least conflicts. The data exists.
But again, industry’s been in the driver’s seat. Industry’s said, we have this application and it needs to be processed because we brought it in.
So what you’re saying is, you’d sit with Jigar Shah and just plan it out?
If he asked me to come, I’d be in D.C. tomorrow. Absolutely. That’s what we want — let’s plan it out, and then I can go work on other things, y’know? I’d be happy to sue over that [other] stuff.
Absent this planning, which sounds nice but has not happened, proponents of permitting reform often cite CBD’s repeated opposition as a reason to pass legislation that could limit your ability to challenge projects. What do you think about how your actions now could impact your capacity to act in the future?
I think some level of permitting reform was inevitable. I don’t think anything in the permitting bill will cease our efforts. It will make it harder for sure. I think the biggest thing it will do is eliminate the ability for frontline communities to engage, so we’re looking at an undemocratic clean energy transition where you have technocrats making decisions for how people’s lives will play out. People in these rural communities feel like they’re under assault. Low income desert folks feel like their whole life is going to be turned upside down.
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A conversation with Frank Maisano of Bracewell
Today’s Q&A is with Frank Maisano, one of the most sought-after energy lobbyists in Washington. Maisano, a Beltway veteran who has worked in Congress as well, has a long history with me that goes back to the earliest days of my environmental reporting career. So when I helped author a story for Heatmap this week about the budget risks to the Inflation Reduction Act, he reached out and asked if he could give me his take: that our reporting missed the mark.
Naturally, I asked if I could publish the whole thing in my newsletter, because what good is a lobbyist’s words if they aren’t written down? The following is an abridged version of our conversation, lightly edited for clarity.
Frank, once again, thanks for taking the time to reach out and tell us why we’re wrong. Let’s start with my burning question: tell me why?
Well I don’t know that everything you wrote about is wrong, but I think historical perspective is important here. Unfortunately when you’re as old as I am, and have been involved in this game as long as I have, you know from things that happened before that everything is not new again.
When I worked on the Appropriations Committee in 1994, 1995 and Republicans took over with House Speaker Newt Gingrich, many of these types of budget-cutting plans were in place. At the time, Republicans didn’t have total control because Clinton was president, but Project 2025 isn’t just Project 2025. It was Project 2005. It was Project 1985. The Heritage Foundation has been making these proposals every year for the 40 years I’ve been around. I’d just want to remind people of the operational historical context for how Congress works and how folks have been trying to do this for years.
I was talking to somebody the other day and I said, Talk to me in December of this year. Because in December of this year, a lot of this hyperbolic symbolism and walking people out of agencies — all of this will be over. Congress will have spoken and we’ll have a better sense of the true direction they’re going in.
I’m not going to say there won’t be significant cuts. I suspect there will be reductions in government spending. But it’s certainly not going to be as harried, frantic, and news-splashed as we’re seeing now.
Do you actually think these Republicans who signed onto a letter defending the Inflation Reduction Act will stand by these statements when a final bill comes for a vote?
Are you asking if the 21 will stand by the statements?
Yeah, I mean, the point of our story was to say the budget math matters more than that and there’ll be a choice between tax cuts and saving more of the IRA.
Like I said, when we went through this in 1994, you would think the budget math mattered more, but it never does. Once people start lobbying and start advocating for their own constituencies, local projects, I think you’re going to see a significant trimming of the attitude.
There’s a few people who, budget be damned, will be in the ‘let’s cut everything’ book. I don’t think that’s a majority of the [Republican] caucus, though, especially when you look at provisions of the IRA. There are many provisions of the IRA that are how Republicans have done energy policy for years. There were provisions in the bipartisan infrastructure law that were how Republicans have done energy policy for years.
Has every Republican supported it? No. Are there certain loud voices on the budget hawk side? Absolutely. Do either of those sides have a full measure of support that’s going to pull someone like a tug of war over to the other side? Most likely not. There’s going to have to be an internal party agreement but also an internal congressional agreement which I think will tend to pull this budget hawk-ness further away from the absolute spending cuts they want to impose.
Do you think the administration’s views on wind, solar, or battery storage deployment will matter when it comes to the fate of the IRA?
They may have a specific view. But a lot of it is out of their hands. The market has made decisions already. Utilities, investor-owned, even rural co-op utilities have made decisions already in balancing their generation sources.
I don’t think any sort of administration policy to X one off or close it out is probably that viable. Especially in the sense where we need all the energy we can get.
Demand takes control of the policy levers. We saw this with the Biden administration on oil and gas where they tried mightily to reduce our output, but then 2022 came around and they felt compelled to push more development and then we had record development under the Biden administration.
I think we’re going to see similar energy trends in this administration with the policy levers the administration is less interested in. Let me give you an example: I think offshore wind is going to still be able to play a role in meeting that energy demand. Look at what’s happening in the Northeast, and in Virginia, where they have incredible energy demand projections. Offshore wind along with natural gas along with some nuclear are [together] going to play a role in how we meet that demand in the future. Even if the administration pushes back on offshore wind, [Republican Virginia Gov.] Glenn Youngkin sees it as a part of his mix and that is a powerful force. I see that offsetting some of the policy push preferences this administration might have.
I know in the ‘90s you were involved in navigating this, but I’m still wondering after all this if the budget math we brought up in our story and parliamentary procedure will matter…
It certainly does matter and it’s certainly one way to look at it. But Congress has a way of coming to a deal.
1. Bristol County, Massachusetts – The state of Massachusetts is abandoning plans to build an offshore wind research center in New Bedford, a fishing town that has also hosted protests against Vineyard Wind.
2. Long Island, New York – Speaking of offshore wind woes, the anti-wind activist movement is now circling Empire Wind and asking President Donald Trump to rescind the EPA air permit to the Equinor offshore project.
3. Fayette County, Pennsylvania – This sought-after county for solar development appears to be on the precipice of enacting a sweeping 500-foot property setback requirement.
4. Tippecanoe County, Indiana – Solar developer Geenex is beginning what’ll likely be a tense battle to win special zoning approval for a large utility-scale solar project in an area that already is subject to a restrictive setback ordinance.
5. Jefferson County, Wisconsin – We’re about to get a glimpse of whether Wisconsin can be as difficult a battleground for large-scale solar in rural areas as Ohio.
6. Routt County, Colorado – We have our first-ever entry of Hotspots from Colorado, thanks to a zoning snafu.
7. Fannin County, Texas – County commissioners here are now forming a joint planning committee with the city of Savoy, where we told you residents fearful after the Moss Landing battery fire are trying to stop an Engie storage facility from being built.
8. Fresno County, California – The Moss Landing fire isn’t stopping Gov. Gavin Newsom from expediting new battery storage project permits.
9. Alaska – How do you kill a battery project if no one’s around to protest? Take away its money… and that’s why my mind is on the Kodiak State.
Developers have yet to see the approvals start flowing, however.
The Bureau of Land Management claims that Trump’s pause on solar energy permitting is no longer in effect — though no permits have yet come of it.
President Trump paused permitting for solar as well as wind projects for 60 days via executive order on his first day in office. The expiration date on that pause was technically last Friday, and in an exclusive statement to Heatmap, BLM spokesperson Brian Hires said “there is currently no freeze on processing renewable applications for solar” or “making authorization decisions” on projects.
Hires also said all transmission for wind projects is now allowed to advance through federal permitting, a statement that arrives after the agency indicated in emails I obtained that it may soon approve wires for a wind project in Wyoming sited on private land. BLM also approved a transmission project for a solar farm earlier this month, a decision it made public with a press release that also declared solar was part of the president’s “energy dominance” agenda.
This might sound like good news. But I’m going to wait and see before declaring the permitting pause for solar officially dead because we’ve yet to see a solar farm on federal lands permitted under Trump 2.0.
As we reported in February, a leaked industry memo outlined how Trump’s permitting freeze led to chaos and delays for solar energy developers who found that agencies on the fringes of the process — such as the Army Corps of Engineers — were suddenly dragging their feet on crucial permits. Even after the Army Corps told me it was no longer delaying solar permits, I heard conflicting tales from developers, who said there was a disconnect between the public line and government inaction behind the scenes.
A D.C. solar industry lobbyist who requested anonymity to speak candidly on the matter said they’ve yet to receive any clarity on whether the pause has actually been lifted and whether permits will actually be issued now. The source said they’ve heard little from state BLM offices or staff in Washington about what projects may be approved, and that the Interior Department — which oversees BLM — has been “weirdly opaque” with solar developers so far in Trump’s term.
“We can’t get straight answers,” the lobbyist said.
BLM told me the pause is still in effect for wind projects sited on federal lands and in federal waters, pending completion of a comprehensive government review of the wind sector’s environmental and national security implications. There’s been no timetable or deadline set for finishing that review, which has so far been conducted in secret. The agency did not provide me with any information on that study.