Sign In or Create an Account.

By continuing, you agree to the Terms of Service and acknowledge our Privacy Policy

Podcast

How Jigar Shah Thinks About Risk

Inside episode 13 of Shift Key.

Robinson Meyer and Jigar Shah.
Heatmap Illustration/@bendroz

Jigar Shah might have more control over America’s new wave of industrial policy — not to mention its climate policy — than anyone not named Joe Biden. And he’s not even a Cabinet-level official. As director of the Department of Energy’s Loan Programs Office, which is akin to its in-house bank, Shah oversees how roughly $400 billion in lending authority will be spent. That money will help finance new EV factories, geothermal wells, carbon capture sites, and more.

On this week’s episode, Rob sits down with Shah to discuss the philosophy that he brings to his role. When financing new projects — many of which are the first of their kind — how does he think about cash flow, about technological innovation, about risk? Robinson Meyer is executive editor of Heatmap News; Jesse Jenkins, an energy systems engineering professor at Princeton, is off this week.

Subscribe to “Shift Key” and find this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can also add the show’s RSS feed to your podcast app to follow us directly.

Here is an excerpt from our conversation:

Robinson Meyer: I think one thing you’ve said often is that we have — and you alluded to at the beginning of the conversation — is that we haven’t built manufacturing in this country, basically, for 40 years. I think one note we’ve seen both from the president and from the partisan laws passed by Congress and the president — but also, frankly, from a more bipartisan set of lawmakers — is that there’s a lot of eagerness for that to change. So from your point of view as someone kind of in the weeds every day, what needs to change for the U.S. to build manufacturing and heavy industry domestically again?

Jigar Shah: Well, let’s start by saying that I think that the BIL and IRA that’s passed has been a huge success story, right? We’ve gotten 500 announcements of new factories in the United States. And so, these are communities like the one that I grew up in, that had the seventh largest steel mill in the country that shut down while I was there. And all of the people who went to high school there expected to have a job there, and they don’t. Right? These are folks who are pretty pissed off about the fact that their lot in life, really, was destined to not have family-sustaining jobs for 40 years, right?

And so now we’re giving people hope again that, for folks who have high school educations, that they can actually support their families and do these things, right? So in that perspective, we’re winning, right?

But on the other side, we still have a lot more work to do, right? So when you think about the underlying conventional wisdom, the conventional wisdom is that you’re going to start a factory, China’s going to dump product in the United States and going to put you out of business, right? And so the local bank is saying, prove to me that China’s not going to dump product and put you out of business. Those old habits die hard, right?

Now, the president has put together all sorts of belts and suspenders, but I don’t think that’s clear. I’ll give you an example. So in the EV supply chain — we have an extraordinary amount of lithium in this country. We made the announcements at Thacker Pass and Rhyolite Ridge, as well as recycling for Li-Cycle and Redwood. But we’ve got additional abilities to get lithium over in Arkansas and Salton Sea in California.

And a lot of folks are saying, lithium prices are down 70% from their highs, right? So therefore there’s no way you can make it work right now. Lithium was $5,000 a unit in 2020. Today it’s $20,000 a unit. It was as high as $80,000 — $20,000 is still 4x what it was in 2020. And so there’s a way to make it profitable, but we also have the 30D program where a lot of automakers get incentives to buy locally for domestic content.

And so I feel like there’s just so much in the IRA, that the belts and suspenders approach that the administration took is not something that most people understand. And as a result, a lot of dollars are not moving from the commercial markets. We’ve got to step in and move them.

This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by…

KORE Power provides the commercial, industrial, and utility markets with functional solutions that advance the clean energy transition worldwide. KORE Power's technology and manufacturing capabilities provide direct access to next generation battery cells, energy storage systems that scale to grid+, EV power & infrastructure, and intuitive asset management to unlock energy strategies across a myriad of applications. Explore more at korepower.com.

Watershed’s climate data engine helps companies measure and reduce their emissions, turning the data they already have into an audit-ready carbon footprint backed by the latest climate science. Get the sustainability data you need in weeks, not months. Learn more at watershed.com.

Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow.

Green

You’re out of free articles.

Subscribe today to experience Heatmap’s expert analysis 
of climate change, clean energy, and sustainability.
To continue reading
Create a free account or sign in to unlock more free articles.
or
Please enter an email address
By continuing, you agree to the Terms of Service and acknowledge our Privacy Policy
Adaptation

Anti-Mask Sentiment Is Making It Hard to Protect People From Wildfire Smoke

The COVID-era political divide is still having ripple effects.

Taking off a mask during a wildfire.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

Six years ago this month, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention began advising that even healthy individuals to wear face coverings to protect themselves against the spread of what we were then still calling the “novel coronavirus.” Mask debates, mandates, bans, and confrontations followed. To this day, in the right parts of the country, covering your face will still earn you dirty looks, or worse.

If there were ever another year to have an N95 on hand, though, it’s this one. This winter was the warmest on record in nine U.S. states; Oregon, Colorado, Utah, and Montana have also recorded some of their lowest snowpacks since record-keeping began. That cues up the landscape in the West for “above normal significant fire potential,” in the words of the National Interagency Fire Center, which issues predictive outlooks for the season ahead. And it’s not just the West: the 642,000-acre Morrill grass fire, which ignited in early March, was the largest in Nebraska’s history, while exceptional drought conditions stretching from East Texas through Florida have set the stage for “well above normal fire activity” heading into the spring lightning season. As of the end of March, wildfires have already burned more than 1.6 million acres in the U.S., or 231% of the previous 10-year average.

Keep reading...Show less
AM Briefing

Total Waste

On Eli Lilly’s nuclear, Sunrise Wind, and Brazil’s minerals

Offshore wind.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

Current conditions: Temperatures in the Northeast are swinging from last week’s record 90 degrees Fahrenheit to a cold snap with the risk of freezing • After a sunny weekend, the United States’ southernmost capital — Pago Pago, American Samoa — is facing a week of roaring thunderstorms • It’s nearing 100 degrees in Bangui as the Central African Republic’s capital and largest city braces for another day of intense storms.


THE TOP FIVE

1. Oil prices jump as fragile Iran War ceasefire crumbles

The price of crude spiked nearly 7% in pre-market trading Sunday after the fragile ceasefire between Iran and the U.S.-Israeli alliance. Things had been looking up on Friday, when President Donald Trump announced what appeared to be a breakthrough in talks with Tehran in a post on Truth Social, saying Iran would “fully reopen” the Strait of Hormuz. By Sunday, however, the U.S. commander in chief was accusing Tehran of firing bullets at French and British vessels in the waterway in “a total violation of our ceasefire agreement,” adding: “That wasn’t nice, was it?” On Sunday afternoon, Trump posted again to announce that the U.S. had seized an Iranian-flagged cargo ship attempting to traverse the strait. The prolonged conflict will only harden the historic rupture the severe contraction of oil and gas supply to the global market in modern history has triggered in global energy planning. “As happened with Russia’s war against Ukraine, the consequences of the Hormuz closure cannot simply be undone. That leaves countries — especially poorer countries dependent on fossil fuel imports — with a stark choice about how to fuel their future economic growth,” Heatmap’s Matthew Zeitlin wrote last week. “The crisis may have tipped the balance towards renewable and storage technology from China over oil and natural gas from the Persian Gulf, Russia, or the United States.”

Keep reading...Show less
Blue
Climate Tech

Exclusive: Where We’re At in the Race to Save the Planet

Investor and philanthropist John Doerr shares a refresh to his Speed & Scale climate action tracker.

From heat to coolness.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

John Doerr thinks it’s time to refresh his grand plan for decarbonization. The Kleiner Perkins chairman and climate-focused philanthropist published his book Speed & Scale: An Action Plan for Solving Our Climate Crisis Now five years ago; then a year later, he introduced an online tracker to measure global progress across the book’s core objectives, which includes sectoral targets such as electrifying transport as well as execution-related goals that cut across all sectors such as winning on politics and policy and increasing investment investing.

But in the time since, both the world and the climate outlook have shifted significantly. So Doerr, alongside his co-author and advisor Ryan Panchadsaram, concluded that both the action plan and the metrics used to assess progress were due for a major revamp.

Keep reading...Show less
Blue