Sign In or Create an Account.

By continuing, you agree to the Terms of Service and acknowledge our Privacy Policy

Podcast

How Jigar Shah Thinks About Risk

Inside episode 13 of Shift Key.

•
Robinson Meyer and Jigar Shah.
Heatmap Illustration/@bendroz

Jigar Shah might have more control over America’s new wave of industrial policy — not to mention its climate policy — than anyone not named Joe Biden. And he’s not even a Cabinet-level official. As director of the Department of Energy’s Loan Programs Office, which is akin to its in-house bank, Shah oversees how roughly $400 billion in lending authority will be spent. That money will help finance new EV factories, geothermal wells, carbon capture sites, and more.

On this week’s episode, Rob sits down with Shah to discuss the philosophy that he brings to his role. When financing new projects — many of which are the first of their kind — how does he think about cash flow, about technological innovation, about risk? Robinson Meyer is executive editor of Heatmap News; Jesse Jenkins, an energy systems engineering professor at Princeton, is off this week.

Subscribe to “Shift Key” and find this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can also add the show’s RSS feed to your podcast app to follow us directly.

Here is an excerpt from our conversation:

Robinson Meyer: I think one thing you’ve said often is that we have — and you alluded to at the beginning of the conversation — is that we haven’t built manufacturing in this country, basically, for 40 years. I think one note we’ve seen both from the president and from the partisan laws passed by Congress and the president — but also, frankly, from a more bipartisan set of lawmakers — is that there’s a lot of eagerness for that to change. So from your point of view as someone kind of in the weeds every day, what needs to change for the U.S. to build manufacturing and heavy industry domestically again?

Jigar Shah: Well, let’s start by saying that I think that the BIL and IRA that’s passed has been a huge success story, right? We’ve gotten 500 announcements of new factories in the United States. And so, these are communities like the one that I grew up in, that had the seventh largest steel mill in the country that shut down while I was there. And all of the people who went to high school there expected to have a job there, and they don’t. Right? These are folks who are pretty pissed off about the fact that their lot in life, really, was destined to not have family-sustaining jobs for 40 years, right?

And so now we’re giving people hope again that, for folks who have high school educations, that they can actually support their families and do these things, right? So in that perspective, we’re winning, right?

But on the other side, we still have a lot more work to do, right? So when you think about the underlying conventional wisdom, the conventional wisdom is that you’re going to start a factory, China’s going to dump product in the United States and going to put you out of business, right? And so the local bank is saying, prove to me that China’s not going to dump product and put you out of business. Those old habits die hard, right?

Now, the president has put together all sorts of belts and suspenders, but I don’t think that’s clear. I’ll give you an example. So in the EV supply chain — we have an extraordinary amount of lithium in this country. We made the announcements at Thacker Pass and Rhyolite Ridge, as well as recycling for Li-Cycle and Redwood. But we’ve got additional abilities to get lithium over in Arkansas and Salton Sea in California.

And a lot of folks are saying, lithium prices are down 70% from their highs, right? So therefore there’s no way you can make it work right now. Lithium was $5,000 a unit in 2020. Today it’s $20,000 a unit. It was as high as $80,000 — $20,000 is still 4x what it was in 2020. And so there’s a way to make it profitable, but we also have the 30D program where a lot of automakers get incentives to buy locally for domestic content.

And so I feel like there’s just so much in the IRA, that the belts and suspenders approach that the administration took is not something that most people understand. And as a result, a lot of dollars are not moving from the commercial markets. We’ve got to step in and move them.

This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by…

KORE Power provides the commercial, industrial, and utility markets with functional solutions that advance the clean energy transition worldwide. KORE Power's technology and manufacturing capabilities provide direct access to next generation battery cells, energy storage systems that scale to grid+, EV power & infrastructure, and intuitive asset management to unlock energy strategies across a myriad of applications. Explore more at korepower.com.

Watershed’s climate data engine helps companies measure and reduce their emissions, turning the data they already have into an audit-ready carbon footprint backed by the latest climate science. Get the sustainability data you need in weeks, not months. Learn more at watershed.com.

Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow.

Green
🔒

You’ve reached your free article limit

Subscribe to Heatmap News for unlimited access to daily energy and climate coverage.
To continue reading
Create a free account or sign in to unlock more free articles.
or
Please enter an email address
By continuing, you agree to the Terms of Service and acknowledge our Privacy Policy
A data center.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

This is Heatmap Daily, a weekday digest written by our executive editor. Subscribe here.

My colleague Emily Pontecorvo has a fascinating story today about Net Power, an energy and power development company whose technology once seemed key to decarbonizing the country’s electricity grid.

Keep reading...Show less
Energy

Net Power Surrendered Its Clean Dreams to Data Center Demand

The zero-emission pioneer is doing the dirty work for the AI boom.

A gas plant and a data center.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

All kinds of companies have refashioned themselves to exploit the AI boom. A bitcoin miner became a data center developer, a shoemaker is building GPUs, and an electric vehicle company is integrating its powertrains into server racks.

Now, a company that once aspired to build one of the lowest-emitting power plants has pivoted to building one of the dirtiest in order to meet data centers’ requirement for speed to power above all. Net Power was founded to pioneer a new form of natural gas power plant with zero emissions, but it has given up on that technology and recently acquired 10 natural gas reciprocating engines that it plans to co-locate with a data center on the site intended for its first commercial plant.

Keep reading...Show less
Yellow
Politics

The Surprisingly Exciting Race to Be California’s Next Insurance Commissioner

Ben Allen wants to reform the existing market. Jane Kim wants a revolution.

California Insurance Commissioner candidates.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images, Ben Allen, Jane Kim

From Crescent City to Coronado, California voters are facing decisions on a down-ballot strewn with over a dozen propositions and a series of statewide Democrat-versus-Republican races with mostly foregone conclusions.

And then there’s the insurance commissioner.

In the race to oversee California’s insurance market, a $452 billion-in-premium-volume monster imperiled by insurer defections and disaster risks, Democratic State Senator Ben Allen, whose district includes Pacific Palisades, is facing off against Jane Kim, a progressive former San Francisco supervisor.

Kim has the support of Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders — it’s the first thing you see about her when you Google her campaign. She previously served as his California political director during the 2020 presidential race, and she appeared earlier this month at an event with the senator in support of the state’s proposed billionaire wealth tax.

Allen, by contrast, won the endorsement of the state’s Democratic Party and its two incumbent senators.

There has been little public polling of the race, but one September survey showed Kim leading Allen 25% to 18%, with more than half the electorate undecided.

“My opponent and I are not even running for the same office,” Kim told me. “He’s running for what this office used to be, and I’m running for what this office could be.”

Allen wasn’t worried about Kim’s characterization in my interview with him, telling me, “I want to fix the market that we have and make it work. My opponent wants to build a new state insurer that nobody has priced.”

Keep reading...Show less