Sign In or Create an Account.

By continuing, you agree to the Terms of Service and acknowledge our Privacy Policy

Podcast

What Senator Brian Schatz Wants Climate Advocates to Know

Rob and Jesse talk Trump, contracts, and climate messaging with the lawmaker from Hawaii.

Brian Schatz.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

The first few weeks of the new Trump administration have seen an onslaught of anti-climate actions: an order punishing the wind industry, an attempted reversal of the Environmental Protection Administration’s climate authority, and a brazen — and possibly unconstitutional — attempt to freeze all spending under Biden’s climate laws. Democrats’ climate legacy seems to be under assault. How will they respond?

Senator Brian Schatz has represented Hawaii in the U.S. Senate since 2010. He is the chief deputy whip for the Democratic Party. A self-described climate hawk, he helped shape what became the Inflation Reduction Act, and he has emerged as an early voice of opposition to the second Trump administration. He was previously Hawaii’s lieutenant governor and a state lawmaker.

On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Rob and Jesse talk to Schatz about congressional Democrats’ plan to push back against Trump, what the clean energy industry needs to do for the next four years, and whether this climate backlash to Trump should be different than the last one. Shift Key is hosted by Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University, and Robinson Meyer, Heatmap’s executive editor.

Subscribe to “Shift Key” and find this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can also add the show’s RSS feed to your podcast app to follow us directly.

Here is an excerpt from our conversation:

Jesse Jenkins: What can Democrats or others in opposition do to shorten that timeline, so that there is a political cost that’s felt more expediently and they do pull back from this kind of effort?

Brian Schatz: Look, I think there is strength in numbers, and so I think everyone has to — like, we can’t do this in secret, because everybody’s too afraid of being targeted. And you know, I’ve just experienced this over the last two weeks. Everyone is … you know, doesn’t want to poke their head up because the nail that stands up is pounded down. And that’s how autocrats work, right? Is that if you stand up for the rule of law, if you stand up and say, hey, I don’t think this is a good decision, then you are putting your own personal, professional safety at risk. And so there is strength in numbers.

And I’ll just also … I really strongly encourage anybody who listens to this podcast who is in the business of being a clean energy developer, do not plead with the monarch for mercy on your own project. That is what they want. They want you to come in and treat the federal government like it’s the Ford Foundation, or the Pew Charitable Trust, or whomever. And you’re basically saying, I know you don’t want to do DEI, but let me explain to you why this isn’t DEI. I know this says climate, but in fact, really, it’s severe weather adaptation.

Listen, listen, what’s happening is unlawful. What’s happening is impermissible. And the more we get people individually pleading for mercy, the more screwed we all are. We all have to hang together. It’s the American Clean Power Association. It’s the energy company that does both clean and fossil energy. It’s the transmission and distribution companies. It’s the manufacturers. It’s labor. It’s Wall Street. It’s K Street. Like, everyone has to hang together and say, not only is this good for business, but there’s something that is foundationally worse for business than any individual policy decision. And that is the idea that a president can come in and ignore the law. Because once you believe that it depends on an election whether or not a law is going to stick, the United States ceases to be as investable as it once was.

And one of the things that makes us the most powerful economy in the world is, whatever else is going on, if you’re an international investor, you have a number of factors — you know, how are you going to get your money out. But you’re always looking for political and policy stability. And the United States is always able to say, on rule of law, on political and policy stability, we rank number one, two, three, or four. And right now, it is fair to question whether or not we’re an investable place if we believe that a president can come in and just ignore a duly enacted statute.

This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by …

Download Heatmap Labs and Hydrostor’s free report to discover the crucial role of long duration energy storage in ensuring a reliable, clean future and stable grid. Learn more about Hydrostor here.

Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow.

Green

You’re out of free articles.

Subscribe today to experience Heatmap’s expert analysis 
of climate change, clean energy, and sustainability.
To continue reading
Create a free account or sign in to unlock more free articles.
or
Please enter an email address
By continuing, you agree to the Terms of Service and acknowledge our Privacy Policy
Climate Tech

There’s a Better Way to Mine Lithium — At Least in Theory

In practice, direct lithium extraction doesn’t quite make sense, but 2026 could its critical year.

A lithium worker.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images, Standard Lithium

Lithium isn’t like most minerals.

Unlike other battery metals such as nickel, cobalt, and manganese, which are mined from hard-rock ores using drills and explosives, the majority of the world’s lithium resources are found in underground reservoirs of extremely salty water, known as brine. And while hard-rock mining does play a major role in lithium extraction — the majority of the world’s actual production still comes from rocks — brine mining is usually significantly cheaper, and is thus highly attractive wherever it’s geographically feasible.

Keep reading...Show less
Green
Q&A

How Trump’s Renewable Freeze Is Chilling Climate Tech

A chat with CleanCapital founder Jon Powers.

Jon Powers.
Heatmap Illustration

This week’s conversation is with Jon Powers, founder of the investment firm CleanCapital. I reached out to Powers because I wanted to get a better understanding of how renewable energy investments were shifting one year into the Trump administration. What followed was a candid, detailed look inside the thinking of how the big money in cleantech actually views Trump’s war on renewable energy permitting.

The following conversation was lightly edited for clarity.

Keep reading...Show less
Yellow
Hotspots

Indiana Rejects One Data Center, Welcomes Another

Plus more on the week’s biggest renewables fights.

The United States.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

Shelby County, Indiana – A large data center was rejected late Wednesday southeast of Indianapolis, as the takedown of a major Google campus last year continues to reverberate in the area.

  • Real estate firm Prologis was the loser at the end of a five-hour hearing last night before the planning commission in Shelbyville, a city whose municipal council earlier this week approved a nearly 500-acre land annexation for new data center construction. After hearing from countless Shelbyville residents, the planning commission gave the Prologis data center proposal an “unfavorable” recommendation, meaning it wants the city to ultimately reject the project. (Simpsons fans: maybe they could build the data center in Springfield instead.)
  • This is at least the third data center to be rejected by local officials in four months in Indiana. It comes after Indianapolis’ headline-grabbing decision to turn down a massive Google complex and commissioners in St. Joseph County – in the town of New Carlisle, outside of South Bend – also voted down a data center project.
  • Not all data centers are failing in Indiana, though. In the northwest border community of Hobart, just outside of Chicago, the mayor and city council unanimously approved an $11 billion Amazon data center complex in spite of a similar uproar against development. Hobart Mayor Josh Huddlestun defended the decision in a Facebook post, declaring the deal with Amazon “the largest publicly known upfront cash payment ever for a private development on private land” in the United States.
  • “This comes at a critical time,” Huddlestun wrote, pointing to future lost tax revenue due to a state law cutting property taxes. “Those cuts will significantly reduce revenue for cities across Indiana. We prepared early because we did not want to lay off employees or cut the services you depend on.”

Dane County, Wisconsin – Heading northwest, the QTS data center in DeForest we’ve been tracking is broiling into a major conflict, after activists uncovered controversial emails between the village’s president and the company.

Keep reading...Show less
Yellow