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A conversation with anti-tech extremism researcher Mauro Lubrano on Sam Altman, Tesla protests, and 5G.

A spate of headline-grabbing attacks motivated by anxiety over artificial intelligence have rattled nerves across the U.S.
On Friday, I wrote a story about whether developers should be worried about violence after a shooting in Indiana targeted a city councilman who had voted in favor of a local data center. Almost at the same time the story published, news broke that an attacker had attempted to firebomb OpenAI CEO Sam Altman’s house. On Monday, the Justice Department filed charges against a 20-year-old from Texas for allegedly throwing a Molotov cocktail at the AI executive’s house. The Houston Chronicle reported that the individual charged had a Substack where they posted several anti-AI screeds; while I have reviewed the blog and can verify it exists, I cannot confirm the author’s connection to the individual charged.
As if that wasn’t enough, just days after the alleged firebombing, two people shot at Altman’s house.
To attempt to make sense of such chaotic brutality, I spoke with Mauro Lubrano, a lecturer at the University of Bath in the United Kingdom and author of the new book Stop the Machines: The Rise of Anti-Tech Extremism. Lubrano has for much of his career studied the rise of a global decentralized movement against tech infrastructure, including energy and transportation systems. Last year, for example, he published a detailed examination of the spate of attacks against Tesla vehicles, dealerships, and factories, calling them “insurrectionary anarchism” rooted in “anti-tech extremism” that “spans multiple ideologies — from eco-extremism to eco-fascism.”
Lubrano and I discussed how a prevailing pessimism about the future, AI acceleration, and climate anxiety is making people more likely to launch physical attacks on devices representing a perceived techno-apocalypse. Lubrano said we should expect more people to attack things linked to electricity itself, and that the solution to the violence is not eco-modernism or optimistic thinking, but rather society finally working through the hard questions raised by AI, climate change, economic inequality, and the other ills vexing so many today.
The following conversation was lightly edited and condensed for clarity.
We’ve seen these movements against tech infrastructure — attacks, threats — for a while. The concept goes back a long time. For a lot of folks in the U.S., there’s analogues here ranging from the assassination of the UnitedHealthcare CEO to ecoterrorism attacks on pipelines and other forms of energy infrastructure. How would you characterize the forces driving these recent attacks on executives and politicians supporting AI data centers?
When we look at anti-technology violence, we tend to see two main patterns of violence: attacks on tech executives, personalities, and so on; and attacks on critical infrastructure. This is related to a worldview that technology is not a collection of individual devices, but part of an interconnected system. Some anti-tech extremists will refer to the “mega-machine,” one that has three main manifestations. There’s an ideological one — the general idea that progress is inherently good. There’s the material manifestation, which is the technologies we interact with every day. And there’s the human component. People become cogs. So by targeting cogs in the machine, you contribute to the collapse of the machine itself.
There’s a propaganda element to all of this, too, targeting individuals who for one reason or another are prominent so it sends shockwaves to the tech community, to make some people change minds or join them in their anti-tech fight, or to just deter people from pursuing research on technology.
Then there’s also critical infrastructure. It comes back to this vision of the mega-machine, where instead of targeting individual technologies you target those critical for the machine to function. They want to strike those first because they will create a domino effect, where they affect all the technologies and the collapse of the system. You will find the attacks tend to cluster around specific targets.
How do you define technology here? Do you mean any kind of tech application? I’m hearing what you’re saying and thinking this may apply to more than AI.
Oh, of course. It’s not just AI. When these people think of technology they are not just thinking of devices but know-how, the ideology of progress, of social forces shaping society and how it works and how labor is organized. Technology is a complex entity, in a way.
In the early 2010s, for example, you saw attacks on facilities after the Fukushima Daiichi disaster. More recently, you had attacks on companies making semiconductors and microchips, so if you take out microchips you cripple the system. And data centers have been discussed for quite some time — I wouldn’t be surprised if we see something happen there, as well. It’s about identifying technologies that all other tech depends on.
There’s an argument some of them make that there’s only one technology all the other depend on, which is electricity. That’s why we’ve seen attacks on power plants, on different targets related to power.
Are you speaking about organized groups? Discussions and forums? I’m sure you’re referencing people you know of, but help us get a better understanding.
When we look at the violent side of the coin we need to acknowledge first that these networks, these movements, reflect trends we’ve seen in political violence over the last few decades, trends that show us we’re in a post-organizational era of political violence. We have names, we have acronyms, but these names are not as important as they used to be. These are decentralized networks, often leaderless, that operate without solid hierarchies or chains of control. We’re not talking about organizations like Al-Qaeda or the Irish Republican Army. We’re talking about networks in which militants often do not know each other because they interact online.
Some of the networks that have been involved in these kinds of attacks are the Informal Anarchist Federation. It formed in 2003 in Italy and became a global entity around 2011. There’s the Conspiracy of Fire Nuclei, which emerged in Greece and then became international. And then there’s a series of ad hoc groups that have emerged over the decades, sometimes who are only known because they’ll release a communique after an attack. Like there’s Vulkan Group, which has carried out a series of attacks on Tesla factories in Germany. Or Individualists Tending to the Wild.
An affiliation to a network is not motivated by gaining material or support or leadership. It’s almost an identity factor because again, when these individuals carry out attacks on their own, they don’t rely on existing networks for support. They might also only be around for one or two attacks because it’s not the group that matters — it’s the network.
Is it just the rise of modern technology driving this violence? Are there other factors at play inciting events, creating this current wave of attacks?
One of the remarkable qualities of anti-tech extremism is that it’s quite flexible. The way this decentralized system works, especially on the anarchist or eco-extremist side, is one side will carry out an attack in a communique they publish online and then make a call for similar attacks on similar targets. Whether or not attacks occur is up to others in the network. If a campaign is considered not really appealing, this might not take place. If instead it’s deemed appealing, you’ll see more attacks.
Last year there was a campaign a French group started called Welcome Spring, Burn a Tesla, which resulted across Europe in a lot of Tesla dealerships being torched. There was some confusion because there was also a campaign against Elon Musk and Tesla, but that wasn’t carried out by people motivated by anti-tech violence, but instead Musk’s role in the U.S. government.
There can also be things people say that incite. In this case, there was an interview recently where Sam Altman basically said if AI is going to steal all the jobs, then maybe those jobs weren’t “real” in the first place. That type of statement is likely to make a few people annoyed. It’s hard to consider what type of development might constitute a catalyst for violence.
I’m struck by the way you’re describing this movement and the rhetoric and signals. I think about Alex Jones and, for example, the idea that 5G is going to brainwash people on behalf of globalists. Do you see anything in global politics providing kindling to this fire?
This is an interesting question because conspiracy thinking is widespread amongst these groups, that there’s this obscure force at work determining outcomes. But on the other hand it depends. In certain groups of people, there’s such a rejection to anything conventional that you’d find disagreement between those people and the political figures. In others, you might argue influencers or politicians who spread rumors about COVID vaccines or 5G that this idea resonates. For example, I don’t see anarchists paying attention to what a politician says because they’re a part of the problem to begin with.
What can be done to counterbalance this? Is there an oppositional force against this rising tide of anti-tech violence? I’ve been stunned to see the absence of any widespread outrage online at what’s transpired so far. Almost all the commentary has been “good, I’m glad this is happening.”
I’m not surprised you’re saying this about the commentary. I’ve been researching violence for years now, but this is the first time I’ve seen the narratives of extremists reflecting some objective concerns amongst people. It doesn’t mean all those other people are participating in the violence themselves, but concerns about AI are real. People are afraid and scared of these developments they don’t understand. But what they do understand is that it’ll have impacts on their lives, to the extent they’re able to comprehend it.
I think demonizing these concerns driving the violence would be a very foolish thing to do. It’ll confirm narratives of surveillance and control.
Right. I mean, some of these are valid concerns. Water, electricity, job loss, surveillance. All of that. But if demonizing this isn’t the right call, what can be done?
Short term, don’t securitize these concerns but do something to limit the violent manifestations. Most of the solutions will be long term. That’s not what people want. People want solutions with immediate effect.
You can divide the solutions into two groups. The first one is, stakeholders and those who develop technologies have to be responsibilized. Going back to that Altman interview, these kinds of comments are not doing us a favor in trying to solve the violence — not to mention other stakeholders can be even more incendiary. You can also limit the problem in how the technologies are used. If we see AI is used to monitor people at protests and demonstrations, acquire and execute attacks in warfare, it can only get worse from here. These applications of AI don’t do us a favor.
Then on a philosophical level, we all need to change the way we relate to technology. We need to go from a position where we think, “What does this allow me to do?” We need to instead think, “Within those activities, let’s select those that will further our connections with one another and with nature.”
What about eco-modernism? Techno-optimism? Are those ideologies solutions or antidotes? Or are they inadequate to address the sheer degree of pessimism and anxiety driving this violence?
From what I can see, doomerism and pessimism is now so widespread that I don’t think those ideologies can work. A lot of people in younger generations believe we are doomed. They believe climate change is going to ruin our lives. There’s wars, geopolitical conflicts. We’re stuck with dystopian visions of the future. This isn’t confined to anti-tech stuff, so therefore optimism has very limited effects.
What gives you hope?
That’s funny because I’m working on a project that concludes there’s no hope.
I didn’t think that was going to be a hard question.
There’s a growing acknowledgement that people may be too dependent on technology. Hopefully we’ll manage to be less dependent on technology and more conscious of what it’s doing to us. An awareness that AI has tremendous environmental impacts.
With acknowledgement is where you need to start. That’s the little hope I have.
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Talking with National Grid’s Matthew Satterwhite about his new report with S&P Global.
This week’s conversation is with Matthew Satterwhite, head of U.S. policy for National Grid. This week National Grid released a report in collaboration with S&P Global I found noteworthy amidst the data center backlash, asserting that building new transmission lines can potentially reduce consumer costs. I reached out asking if we could chat about how this argument leans into the fight over hyperscale infrastructure. I found our conversation illuminating and educational.
The following Q&A was lightly edited for clarity.
Why did you make this report?
It’s all focused on our customers. We’re always looking to find ways to make sure we can provide our service in the most affordable way possible, the most efficient way possible, and we always think of transmission, but it’s fallen out of favor recently. There’s so much demand with large loads, data centers, advanced manufacturing, reshoring. There’s such a need, and a lot of the debate has been focused on what we need on the generation side. We think transmission is an answer, as well.
We focused on what we have control over — since we’re in deregulated states, the only generation we’re doing is to help states reach their renewable goals. It’s a real page-turner. We really get to the core of everything.
Can we lower customer bills with transmission? This report actually showed us that’s a good investment and helps with the resource adequacy and the constraint problems we have in the Northeast. You can bring cheaper electricity in.
With respect to concerns for everyday consumers, how much do you feel like new transmission might alleviate ordinary Americans’ concerns about rising energy prices?
When you look at the demand that’s coming, the projection is that by 2035, we’ll have to add 45 gigawatts, currently. We’re on that path right now. Transmission alone isn’t going to meet that, but the question is, how do we temper that down? What do we do as National Grid to help alleviate the need for all that demand? Can we get that somewhere else rather than in the region by building generation? It's a different version of all of the above. It’s not a generation single answer or a transmission single answer. We think transmission is a big part of that.
This also allows you to bring in cleaner energy from other places. The more robust the network is, you can have energy in different places and bring that in. It replaces the need for some of the generation to be built and pays for itself by creating a cheaper return for customers adding this.
How much of the data center backlash is affecting your transmission project planning calculus? How is it changing what lines are built in the country?
We’re focused on how we can provide the cheapest service for our customers and physics. It’s science and long-term planning. We don’t have the luxury — we can’t follow, this month we’re thinking something, someone got mad, and so we’re thinking something else. We study a lot of science and physics to figure out how to build the grid.
Do you feel like the average Joe Schmoe American sees transmission as making their life less expensive and making their electricity more reliable?
I think there’s frustration and a lack of understanding about the industry overall. There’s fear of the unknown. Are data centers really driving everything that’s happening? That’s where I think, with reports like this, the benefit of it will be that people will read this and see there’s other things we can do to address the load that we need, something different than building a bunch of generation plants.
How do the question marks around whether data centers get built affect transmission planning? How much harder is the backlash making your job?
It’s a science question. Do we do a bunch of work and then nothing happens? That’s why states put their policies out. There’s multiple studies you go through with a region and with a utility. I think that’s one reason why you see states slowing down, to make sure the policy is in check so people don’t do work they don’t need to do. It’s about having the policy to make sure, if you’re studying something, you’re doing it with a purpose.
Plus more of the week’s biggest development fights.
1. Clark County, Nevada – The first data center approved on federal lands has hit a legal brick wall.
2. Jackson County, Missouri – We have yet another high-profile case of a city councilor losing their job over voting for a data center, and this one’s a doozy.
3. Utah – What’s it take for the Bureau of Land Management to approve a big transmission line for zero-emission energy generation these days? Geothermal, baby.
4. Huntsville, Alabama – You can’t even build a tiny battery storage facility in the middle of Alabama anymore.
Where temporary moratoria could happen next.
Brace yourself for more statewide data center moratoria.
So far there are only two full state-wide blocks on data center permits, in New York and Texas. At least fifteen states have moratorium legislation in the pipeline, but few if any of those bills stand a chance of becoming law in the short term. Here are five states, however, where a broad development pause may gain momentum in the next year or two — and all of them are crucial to watch this November.
If you blinked you may have missed it: New Hampshire Governor Kelly Ayotte, a Republican, said she wants to enact a statewide data center moratorium.
Ayotte first came out in support of a pause last month at a Rotary Club meeting, declaring, “It does not make any sense at all to site a data center in New Hampshire.” She also reportedly plans to include a moratorium proposal in her upcoming 2027 fiscal budget. New Hampshire’s legislative sessions occur in the first half of the year, so we won’t see action on a moratorium bill this fall. But Ayotte’s statements suggest the Granite State — which is controlled by the GOP — could pivot to a pause very soon.
New Hampshire has very few data centers. Like, almost none. Only two project fights exist in the Heatmap Pro database, both in Portsmouth, and each has been canceled amidst opposition. Ayotte’s remarks were prompted by the fight against a hyperscale project being studied in the small town of Bow at a former coal plant that closed in late 2025.
None of this should surprise anyone familiar with New England NIMBYs. A New Hampshire moratorium also makes sense given the state’s proximity to Maine, which almost had one of its own. Ayotte, who is up for re-election this year, is likely looking at the political fortunes of Governor Janet Mills and trying to avoid potholes ahead of a likely blue wave hitting her state.
This week, Arizona Attorney General Kris Mayes, a Democrat, came out in support of a statewide data center moratorium.
Mayes told Arizonans in a public statement on Monday that she wants to avoid undue strain on the electric grid and adding to the burden of water cuts led by the Trump administration. Phoenix, where opposition grows by the day, seems to be the primary reason. This shouldn’t in any way be a surprise given the backlash to these projects, which in Arizona’s case is rooted in legitimate water security concerns.
One of the first high-profile data center conflicts I ever learned about was in Arizona: Project Blue, which had to move on from the city of Tucson after officials voted it down last summer. That led Amazon to bail from the facility, though it’s still under development elsewhere on county land. Locals are deeply concerned about the water impacts.
Ordinarily an attorney general wouldn’t have any sway on legislative or executive policy, but the state is already quite receptive to restricting data center development. Governor Katie Hobbs has enacted a three-year pause on tax abatements for data centers, and in response to requests for comment on Mayes’ statement, has told media she’s working on more policies targeting the sector. Hobbs has said she will do more in the following legislative session, but it’s not clear what.
The real decisive action here is probably going to be legislation, and that will depend on the reception any moratorium finds with Republicans in the state legislature, which is typically split in this purple state. The Arizona GOP is quite pro-industry, and Mayes’ opponent in her race for re-election opposes restricting data center construction.
You really should get to know the name Cindy Holscher for the next two months.
Holscher, a state senator, won a surprise upset victory in the Democratic gubernatorial primary this year, and currently sits within a one-point margin of her Republican opponent. How’d she get the nom? By calling for a statewide data center moratorium. “It reminds me of when the automobile manufacturers had to put seatbelts into their cars,“ Holscher told MSNOW after she won the primary. “We as a people and as a state just need to make sure there are guardrails in place.”
Kansas politics are weird. The state is best known as a conservative ideological bastion that’s pro-business. Full Republican control of the Kansas government during the Obama era led to significant social services cuts most closely associated with former Governor Sam Brownback. But after that, Kansans seemed to like moderate Democratic governors, electing Laura Kelly in 2022. Kelly is now term limited out of office.
Kansas already has a colorful patchwork of local data center and renewable energy restrictions. Land use is a big deal in this agricultural behemoth. Should Holscher win in a blue wave year, she would have a mandate to enact a statewide moratorium. Still, Republicans control the legislature, and that’s unlikely to change. My major questions are, should Holscher win, would the GOP in state government listen to Holscher’s request? Or can she do this through the executive branch?
Politics nerds are obsessing over Ohio right now. There, Trump acolyte Vivek Ramaswamy is neck-and-neck in the polls for governor with a Democratic candidate who backs a “conditional” data center moratorium: Amy Acton.
What’s a conditional moratorium? It’s in the eye of the beholder, really. Technically speaking, Governor Josh Shapiro instituted a conditional moratorium in Pennsylvania, where data center projects cannot get permits unless they meet very specific standards set by the governor himself. Shapiro did it through executive action, but in this case, it’s unclear whether the moratorium will be codified through that process or through law.
Should Acton win — or if former Senator Sherrod Brown defeats sitting Senator Jon Husted in the U.S. Senate race — I anticipate major legislative action on data centers in Ohio. Republicans there have essentially permanent control of the state legislature, and they’ve historically been pro-data center. But the freakout over opposition to artificial intelligence and hyperscalers in the senate race specifically has spooked national Republicans, who think it provided the opening Brown needed to potentially win back his seat. Acton and Brown’s political fortunes appear to be wedded to one another, linked to a general angst in the American public.
Every top 5 list needs a wild card, and mine is Oklahoma.
Currently, there’s minimal risk of a data center moratorium. I might’ve had this state higher on my list had Gentner Drummond won the runoff for the GOP gubernatorial primary, given his proclivity to side with anti-renewables activists who also oppose data centers. Instead, likely future governor Mike Mazzei is running on a more moderate, Trump-friendly approach to data centers centered on maintaining industry growth while protecting ratepayers from new infrastructure costs. His opponent, Cyndi Munson, supports a one-year moratorium.
I consider Oklahoma’s odds of having a data center moratorium about equal to the chance of a statewide wind energy ban. Momentum for anti-wind legislation began in the state legislature, and I expect the same to happen with data centers. But unlike the wind industry, which has enormous power in the state, data centers are still a nascent industry. This is a place that may take about two or three years to manifest full cultural upheaval over these projects.