‘We Have a Real Chance’: Chuck Schumer on the Plan to Save the IRA

The Inflation Reduction Act was never supposed to get here.

The clean energy law was one of President Joe Biden and the then-Democratic congressional majority’s proudest accomplishments. But the law — which as initially written would put America much closer to its climate goals — is now in the process of being dismantled. Last month, House Republicans overhauled the law in their reconciliation megabill, all but undoing most of the incentives meant to support the American solar, battery, and electric vehicle industries.

The onus to save the IRA now lies with Senator Chuck Schumer, the New Yorker who leads the Senate’s now-Democratic minority. The IRA, which was first born of his wrangling with former Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia, could possibly perish under his watch. On Thursday, I caught up with Senator Schumer for a conversation about where the clean energy law came from, the costs of repealing it, and how Democrats plan to save it. Our conversation has been edited for length and clarity.

How the Inflation Reduction Act passed at all:

Manchin and I sat down and first he wasn’t going to do it. We needed his vote — we only had 50. And finally — you know the story — sitting in this little room, we negotiated the bill no one else could know about. And to the surprise of everyone, we came out with a good, strong bill that Manchin would support, and it passed, and the support was just overwhelming.

Why the tax credits in the IRA aren’t capped to a certain dollar amount:

We wrote into the bill that wind and solar would get $369 billion in tax credits. We said that, but it ended up being closer to $1 trillion. Manchin got mad at me. I said, Well, Joe, while we were sitting in that room together. I was always afraid that you would want a cap. You could’ve asked for a cap, and you could have gotten it. Anyway, the program’s been overwhelmingly successful in every corner of America.

On why the IRA is in danger now:

When the Republicans came in, when Trump won and the Republicans won the House and Senate, I knew we were in trouble, because this has divided the parties. Unfortunately, the Republican Party in the Senate and in the House was too much in the throes of the fossil fuel industry, and we knew that the hard right — it’s not every Republican, but there’s a hard right group that, almost as a religion, hates clean energy.

On how he sees the Senate math for saving the IRA:

We have 16 Senate Republicans who are sympathetic, either because of the geography of their districts, or they just understand that this is a new future, and we are working them intensely. I have a good team of eight Democrats who are reaching out to the 16 — they have friendships with them — and we are meeting several times a week.

You see, there’s two groups in the Republicans. None of them are going to be a big advocate right now for wind and solar, with maybe a few exceptions. But the hard right, which wants to kill it, went too far.

On what the public campaign to save the IRA is looking like:

We have $10 million of ads going out in different Republican states, and other groups are doing more ads. We’ve mobilized the environmental movement. I spoke to the [League of Conservation Voters] four or five times, and I’m doing a tele-town hall meeting with thousands and thousands of members of the environmental groups to get them to call their senators and call their friends. We’re going all-out.

On some Republicans’ reported views that China is so far ahead on solar, wind, EV, and batteries that the U.S. should double down on oil and gas instead:

No one believes it because they know, first, the cheapest, quickest way to produce new energy is through solar. It takes five, six years to get more natural gas [on the grid]. Solar can take two years, and it’s cheaper.

We’ve made the argument to the Republicans — if we need a lot more energy quickly, you can do whatever you want with oil and gas, but you can’t cut off clean energy. And the tech companies support that, and a lot of the financial companies that want more energy. The AI industry is on our side.

On whether hyperscalers are talking to Senate Republicans and the Trump administration:

We’re asking the AI companies to quietly talk to both. There are some friends in the Trump administration, but we’re asking them to talk to the senators. It makes no sense for the Trump administration to say we need to double our output of energy and then cut off the quickest, cleanest, cheapest source.

On why the public campaign to save the Inflation Reduction Act has been so nonexistent and feckless — until now, maybe:

The power of the hard-right Freedom Caucus to dictate much of what goes in the Republican bills. Their margin’s so narrow, and they say they’re not going to vote for the bill. We need the people on the other side to be just as strong. So far, that’s what we’re trying to build.

On Senate Democrats’ strategy to save the IRA:

Our goal is to get a critical mass of Republican senators. We have four ways to win. We first have the parliamentary procedures — you know, the Byrd bath. We’re not going to be able to knock out a bunch with that, maybe a little bit.

Our second and our best chance is to get a group of critical mass of Republican senators to go to [Senate Majority Leader John] Thune and [Senate Finance Committee Chair Mike] Crapo and say, You’ve got to change this. We can’t vote for it the way it is.

Our third option is we will prepare a long list of amendments, which will be very difficult for some of them to vote for. They may end up voting for them, but the fact that they know they’re coming will help us. And the fourth is we’re going to get another chance back in the House, because once the Senate changes the bill, it has to go back to the House. We’re continuing to work House members. I’ve been in all six Republican House districts in New York, talking about how bad this stuff is. And so we have a real chance.