You’re out of free articles.
Log in
To continue reading, log in to your account.
Create a Free Account
To unlock more free articles, please create a free account.
Sign In or Create an Account.
By continuing, you agree to the Terms of Service and acknowledge our Privacy Policy
Welcome to Heatmap
Thank you for registering with Heatmap. Climate change is one of the greatest challenges of our lives, a force reshaping our economy, our politics, and our culture. We hope to be your trusted, friendly, and insightful guide to that transformation. Please enjoy your free articles. You can check your profile here .
subscribe to get Unlimited access
Offer for a Heatmap News Unlimited Access subscription; please note that your subscription will renew automatically unless you cancel prior to renewal. Cancellation takes effect at the end of your current billing period. We will let you know in advance of any price changes. Taxes may apply. Offer terms are subject to change.
Subscribe to get unlimited Access
Hey, you are out of free articles but you are only a few clicks away from full access. Subscribe below and take advantage of our introductory offer.
subscribe to get Unlimited access
Offer for a Heatmap News Unlimited Access subscription; please note that your subscription will renew automatically unless you cancel prior to renewal. Cancellation takes effect at the end of your current billing period. We will let you know in advance of any price changes. Taxes may apply. Offer terms are subject to change.
Create Your Account
Please Enter Your Password
Forgot your password?
Please enter the email address you use for your account so we can send you a link to reset your password:
Where there’s heat — like, say, the molten core of the Earth — there’s energy.

Could the answer to our energy demand conundrums lie beneath our feet? And no, I’m not talking about oil, coal, or natural gas. I’m referring to the fundamental stuff of energy itself: heat. Geothermal power is having something of a moment as a non-carbon-emitting source of electricity that everyone seems to like — including climate activists, the oil and gas industry, technology companies, and even the Trump White House and Republican-controlled Congress.
Geothermal energy has been in use for decades, but has seemingly faced fundamental geological and physical restrictions in how much of a resource it could ever be. Now, however, thanks to new technological and process developments, including some borrowed from the oil and gas industry, geothermal could become a pillar of the energy system, potentially making up as much as 90 gigawatts of capacity by the middle of the century, roughly equal to nuclear power today.
But I’m getting ahead of myself — let’s start with the basics.
At its most fundamental, geothermal energy is the heat from the Earth’s core made usable up here on top of the crust. The International Energy Agency estimates that the Earth holds 45 terawatts of continuous heat flow, thanks to a mixture of energy left over from the planet’s formation and the radioactive decay of isotopes in its core and mantle of layers, where the temperature is probably around 5,000 degrees Celsius. In general, temperatures go up around 25 degrees per kilometer you go beneath the Earth’s crust.
Any geothermal system needs three things: heat, fluid, and permeability. The energy comes from heat, which is transferred through fluid, and the fluid has to move through permeable rocks to reach the surface. Traditional geothermal involves finding fluid — typically water or steam — that can be brought to the surface and used to spin turbines that generate electricity. Sometimes this happens directly with underground steam; in other cases, extremely hot water under high pressure is converted to steam as it’s brought to the surface; in still other cases, geothermal heat is used to heat another liquid, which is then vaporized to spin a turbine.
Traditional geothermal is inherently limited, however — there’s only so much hot water already under the Earth’s surface that can be economically tapped. “It’s a great solution, but only in a handful of places on Earth where those conditions are met,” Drew Nelson, vice president of programs, policy, and strategy at Project InnerSpace, a geothermal nonprofit, told me. Iceland, Kenya, Indonesia, certain parts of the American Southwest have the ideal mix, but that still leaves a lot of untapped energy. “It’s hot everywhere underground,” Nelson said.
The number of hot rocks through which fluid can be pumped is far, far greater than the amount of naturally occurring hot steam or water. Enhanced geothermal systems bring fluid to already hot rocks, in a sense creating a reservoir that otherwise you’d have to rely on nature to supply. This is done using techniques borrowed from the oil and gas industry, including horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing, to run fluid through the hot rocks before bringing it back up to the surface.
A related technology, closed-loop geothermal (sometimes called “advanced geothermal”), runs fluid through underground pipes that harvest heat from rocks, instead of turning the rock themselves into a reservoir for hot fluid.
The United States is the once and perhaps future champion of geothermal power. We still have the world’s largest installed base of geothermal generation — but it’s largely from projects that were built between 1980 and 1995, according to the International Energy Association. About half of the United States’ roughly 4 gigawatts of geothermal capacity came online in the 1980s alone, according to Energy Information Administration data. Most of this is in California and Nevada.
The Department of Energy has estimated that geothermal could provide at least 90 gigawatts of power, or around 4% of total U.S. generation capacity, by 2050. In practice, however, geothermal could be more valuable on the grid than other more plentiful energy sources because it’s not weather dependent, meaning that much more of that capacity is consistently available.
Either way, the geothermal industry by 2050 will look very different from the one today. Recent growth has been concentrated in California, where utility regulators and the state legislature have instituted aggressive mandates for geothermal procurement, seeing it as a round-the-clock source of non-carbon-emitting power. Future growth, however, has started throughout the American West, and could, thanks to new technologies, flourish all over the world.
As with any source of power, especially if it can be used 24/7, the answer is likely technology companies. The Rhodium Group estimated that geothermal could supply “up to 64%” of future data center demand.
Last year, Meta signed a deal for 150 megawatts of geothermal power from Sage Geosystems, a Texas-based next-generation geothermal startup that specializes in long-duration power generation, and specifically energy storage. That would likely come online in 2027.
One of the leading enhanced geothermal companies, Fervo, has been providing power from a site in Nevada since 2023, and is developing a substantially larger, 500-megawatt project in Beaver County, Utah, near an existing Department of Energy research facility. That should be online by 2026. More recently, Fervo has inked deals with the likes of Google and Nevada utility NV Energy, and is working with the Department of Energy to expand its drilling and bring down costs.
The company has also hinted that it has a megadeal in the works, but even without that, Fervo has achieved impressive scale and results. The company has reported steadily decreasing drilling costs, falling from over $9 million per well to under $5 million from 2022 to 2024, and raised hundreds of millions of dollars from investors including Breakthrough Energy Ventures, DCVC, and Devon Energy.
What has made geothermal distinctive among the array of non-emitting energy sources is that Republicans like it, too. Tax credits accessible to geothermal developers were largely spared in the One Big Beautiful Bill Act, which featured deep cuts to wind and solar incentives. A gaggle of Republican lawmakers have visited Fervo’s Utah site, and Fervo Chief Executive Tim Latimer recently spoke alongside fossil energy executives with the American Energy Dominance Caucus, a bipartisan House caucus. Past bills to streamline permitting for geothermal exploration have had Republican and Democratic sponsors, often from Mountain West states.
Even Trump likes geothermal. The White House’s new AI Action Plan, released in July, calls on policymakers to “prioritize the interconnection of reliable, dispatchable power sources as quickly as possible and embrace new energy generation sources at the technological frontier,” including, by name, “enhanced geothermal.”
One major near-term risk for the geothermal buildout is Trump’s tariff regime, which will likely mean higher input costs for geothermal producers on materials like steel. Another is the new restrictions on tax credits established in the One Big Beautiful Bill Act, which penalize companies with supply chain or financial connections to so-called “foreign entities of concern,” a list of countries that includes North Korea, Iran, Russia, and most importantly in this context, China.
While the exact nexus between China and geothermal is not entirely clear, “there are parts of geothermal technologies, such as pressure valves and drill casings and well casings and the like, that are not unique to geothermal that are very much part of the fracking industry that could be exposed to Chinese investment or Chinese supply contracts,” Advait Arun, senior associate for energy finance at the Center for Public Enterprise, told me.
There’s also the issue of getting next-generation geothermal projects financed. While geothermal companies themselves are able to raise money from investors — Sage Geosystems raised a $17 million series A round last year, for instance, while XGS, a closed-loop geothermal startup, raised $13 million — getting normal project financing from banks and other traditional entities is more of a challenge compared to mature technologies like fracking for oil and gas.
“There was and remains an inherent risk in traditional hydrothermal that the financial community has been very aware of,” Project InnerSpace’s Nelson told me — that is, the scarcity of existing underground water resources. Next-generation geothermal could hopefully see less risk, though, because developers aren’t not searching for a particular reservoir of steam or fluid.
“Getting the financial community to understand that there’s far less risk there is an important piece of it,” Nelson added.
Industry estimates put conventional geothermal’s levelized cost between $64 and $106 per megawatt-hour, while the DOE has estimated that first of a kind of enhanced geothermal comes in at around $200 per megawatt-hour. Compare that to between $38 and $78 for solar, the fastest-growing source of new zero-carbon energy, and between $48 and $107 for natural gas, and you’ll see a challenge to be overcome.
The Biden administration’s goal was to drive next-generation geothermal costs down to $45 per megawatt-hour by 2035. Project InnerSpace projects that “enhanced geothermal can achieve an $88 per megawatt-hour levelized cost of energy” using first of a kind technology, assuming the project can access the investment tax credit and assuming some technologies of scale and efficiencies, which would make it competitive with many other non-carbon power sources. Those costs could come down to “between $50 and $60 per megawatt-hour” by 2035.
At that level, according to the IEA, geothermal would be “one of the cheapest dispatchable sources of low-emissions electricity, on a par or below hydro, nuclear and bioenergy,” and “would also be highly competitive with solar PV and wind paired with battery storage.”
Yes, so it would seem. As Carnegie Endowment researchers have pointed out, these levelized cost projections may not reflect the true value of geothermal. Key to geothermal’s appeal is its dispatchability, not dependent on the weather, and can be turned on or off or ramped up and down as needed.
Log in
To continue reading, log in to your account.
Create a Free Account
To unlock more free articles, please create a free account.
The storm currently battering Jamaica is the third Category 5 to form in the Atlantic Ocean this year, matching the previous record.
As Hurricane Melissa cuts its slow, deadly path across Jamaica on its way to Cuba, meteorologists have been left to marvel and puzzle over its “rapid intensification” — from around 70 miles per hour winds on Sunday to 185 on Tuesday, from tropical storm to Category 5 hurricane in just a few days, from Category 2 occurring in less than 24 hours.
The storm is “one of the most powerful hurricane landfalls on record in the Atlantic basin,” the National Weather Service said Tuesday afternoon. Though the NWS expected “continued weakening” as the storm crossed Jamaica, “Melissa is expected to reach southeastern Cuba as an extremely dangerous major hurricane, and it will still be a strong hurricane when it moves across the southeastern Bahamas.”
So how did the storm get so strong, so fast? One reason may be the exceptionally warm Caribbean and Atlantic.
“The part of the Atlantic where Hurricane Melissa is churning is like a boiler that has been left on for too long. The ocean waters are around 30 degrees Celsius, 2 to 3 degrees above normal, and the warmth runs deep,” University of Redding research scientist Akshay Deoras said in a public statement. (Those exceedingly warm temperatures are “up to 700 times more likely due to human-caused climate change,” the climate communication group Climate Central said in a press release.)
Based on Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change reports, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration concluded in 2024 that “tropical cyclone intensities globally are projected to increase” due to anthropogenic climate change, and that “rapid intensification is also projected to increase.”
NOAA also noted that research suggested “an observed increase in the probability of rapid intensification” for tropical cyclones from 1982 to 2017 The review was still circumspect, however, labeling “increased intensities” and “rapid intensification” as “examples of possible emerging human influences.”
What is well known is that hurricanes require warm water to form — at least 80 degrees Fahrenheit, according to NOAA. “As long as the base of this weather system remains over warm water and its top is not sheared apart by high-altitude winds, it will strengthen and grow.”
A 2023 paper by hurricane researcher Andra Garner argued that between 1971 and 2020, rates of intensification of Atlantic tropical storms “have already changed as anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions have warmed the planet and oceans,” and specifically that the number of these storms that intensify from Category 1 or weaker “into a major hurricane” — as Melissa did so quickly — “has more than doubled in the modern era relative to the historical era.”
“Hurricane Melissa has been astonishing to watch — even as someone who studies how these storms are impacted by a warming climate, and as someone who knows that this kind of dangerous storm is likely to become more common as we warm the planet,” Garner told me by email. She likened the warm ocean waters to “an extra shot of caffeine in your morning coffee — it’s not only enough to get the storm going, it’s an extra boost that can really super-charge the storm.”
This year has been an outlier for the Atlantic with three Category 5 storms, University of Miami senior research associate Brian McNoldy wrote on his blog. “For only the second time in recorded history, an Atlantic season has produced three Category 5 hurricanes,” with wind speeds reaching and exceeding 157 miles per hour, he wrote. “The previous year was 2005. This puts 2025 in an elite class of hurricane seasons. It also means that nearly 7% of all known Category 5 hurricanes have occurred just in this year.” One of those Category 5 storms in 2005 was Hurricane Katrina.
Jamaican emergency response officials said that thousands of people were already in shelters amidst storm surge, flooding, power outages, and landslides. Even as the center of the storm passed over Jamaica Tuesday evening, the National Weather Service warned that “damaging winds, catastrophic flash flooding and life-threatening storm surge continues in Jamaica.”
With Trump turning the might of the federal government against the decarbonization economy, these investors are getting ready to consolidate — and, hopefully, profit.
Since Trump’s inauguration, investors have been quick to remind me that some of the world’s strongest, most resilient companies have emerged from periods of uncertainty, taking shape and cementing their market position amid profound economic upheaval.
On the one hand, this can sound like folks grasping at optimism during a time when Washington is taking a hammer to both clean energy policies and valuable sources of government funding. But on the other hand — well, it’s true. Google emerged from the dot-com crash with its market lead solidified, Airbnb launched amid the global financial crisis, and Sunrun rose to dominance after the first clean tech bubble burst.
The circumstances may change, but behind all of these against-the-odds successes are investors who saw opportunity where others saw risk. In the climate tech landscape of 2025, well-capitalized investors are eyeing some of the more mature sectors being battered by federal policy or market uncertainty — think solar, wind, biogas, and electric transportation — rather than the fresh-faced startups pursuing more cutting edge tech.
“History does not repeat, but it certainly rhymes,” Andrew Beebe, managing director at Obvious Ventures, told me. He was working as the chief commercial officer at the solar company Suntech Power when the first climate tech bubble collapsed in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis. Back then, venture capital and project financing dried up instantly, as banks and investors faced heavy losses from their exposure to risky assets. This time around, “there’s plenty of capital at all stages of venture,” as well as infrastructure investing, he said. That means firms can afford to swoop in to finance or acquire undervalued startups and established companies alike.
“I think you’re gonna see a lot of projects in development change hands,” Beebe told me.
Investors don’t generally publicize when the companies or projects that they’re backing become “distressed assets,” i.e. are in financial trouble, nor do they broadcast when their explicit goal is to turn said projects around. But that’s often what opportunistic investing entails.
“As investors in the energy and infrastructure space — which is inherently in transition — we take it as a very important point of our strategy to be opportunistic,” Giulia Siccardo, a managing director at Quinbrook, told me. (Prior to joining the investment firm, Siccardo was director of the Department of Energy’s Office of Manufacturing & Energy Supply Chains under President Biden.)
Quinbrook sees opportunities in biogas and renewable natural gas, a sector that once enjoyed “very cushioned margins” thanks to investor interest in corporate sustainability, Siccardo told me, but which has lately gone into a “rapid decline.” But she’s also looking at solar and storage, where developers are rushing to build projects before tax credits expire, as well as grid and transmission infrastructure, given the dire need for upgrades and buildout as load growth increases.
As of now, the only investment Quinbrook has explicitly described as opportunistic is its acquisition of a biomethane facility in Junction City, Oregon. When it opened in 2013, the facility used food waste — which otherwise would have emitted methane in a landfill — to produce renewable biogas for clean electricity generation. But after Shell acquired the plant, it switched to converting cow manure and agricultural residue into renewable natural gas for heavy-duty transportation fuels, a process that it’s operated commercially since 2021. Siccardo declined to provide information about the plant’s performance at the time of Quinbrook’s acquisition, though presumably, it has yet to reach its total production capacity of 730,000 million British thermal units per year — enough to supply about 12,000 U.S. households.
The extension of the clean fuel production tax credit, plus the potential for hyperscalers to purchase RNG credits, are still driving demand, however. And that’s increased Siccardo’s confidence in pursuing investments and acquisitions in the space. “That’s a market that, from a policy standpoint, has actually been pretty stable — and you might even say favored — by the One Big Beautiful Bill relative to other technologies,” she explained.
Solar, meanwhile, is still cheap and quick to deploy, with or without the tax credits, Siccardo told me. “If you strip away all subsidies, and are just looking at, what is the technology that’s delivering the lowest cost electron, and which technology has the least supply chain bottlenecks right now in North America —- that drives you to solar and storage,” she said.
Another leading infrastructure investment firm, Generate Capital, is also looking to cash in on the moment. After replacing its CEO and enacting company-wide layoffs, Generate’s head of external affairs, Jonah Goldman, told me that “managers who understand the [climate] space and who can take advantage of the opportunities that are underpriced in this tougher market environment are set up to succeed.”
The firm also sees major opportunities when it comes to good old solar and storage projects. In an open letter, Generate’s new CEO, David Crane, wrote that “for the first time in nearly four decades, the U.S. has an insatiable need for more power: as much as we can produce, as soon as we can, wherever and however we can produce it.”
Crane sees it as the duty of Generate and other investors to use mergers and acquisitions as a tool to help clean tech scale and mature. “If companies across our subsectors were publicly traded, the market itself would act as a centripetal force towards industry consolidation,” he wrote. But because many clean energy companies are privately funded, Crane said “it is up to us, the providers of that private capital, to force industry improvement, through consolidation and otherwise.”
Helping solar companies accelerate their construction timelines to lock in tax credit eligibility has actually become an opportunistic market of its own, Chris Creed, a managing partner at Galvanize Climate Solutions and co-head of its credit division, told me. “Helping those companies that need to start or complete their projects within a predetermined time frame because of changes in the tax credit framework became an investable opportunity for us,” Creed told me. “We have a number of deals in our near term pipeline that basically came about as a result of that.”
Given that some solar companies are bound to fare better than others, he agreed that mergers and acquisitions were likely — among competitors as well as involving companies working in different stages of a supply chain. “It wouldn’t shock me if you saw some horizontal consolidation or some vertical integration,” Creed told me.
Consolidation can only go so far, though. So while investors seem to agree that solar, storage, and even the administration’s nemesis — wind — are positioned for a long and fruitful future, when it comes to more emergent technologies, not all will survive the headwinds. Beebe thinks there’s been “irrational exuberance” around both green hydrogen and direct air capture, for example, and that seasoned investors will give those spaces a pass.
Electric mobility — e.g. EVs, electric planes, and even electrified shipping — and grid scalability — which includes upgrades to make the grid more efficient, flexible, and optimized — are two sectors that Beebe is betting will survive the turmoil.
But for all investors that have the capability to do so, for now, “the easy bet is just to move your money outside the U.S.” Beebe told me.
We might be starting to see just that. Quinbrook also invests in the U.K. and Australia, and just announced its first Canadian investment last week. It acquired an ownership stake in Elemental Clean Fuels, an energy developer making renewable fuels such as RNG, low-carbon methanol, and — yes — clean hydrogen.
Last week, Generate announced that it had closed $43 million in funding from the Canadian company Fiera Infrastructure Private Debt for its North American portfolio of anaerobic digestion projects, which produce renewable natural gas — Generate’s first cross-currency, cross-border deal.
Creed still has confidence in the U.S. market, however, telling me he’s “very bullish on American innovation.” He certainly acknowledges that it’s a tough time out there for any investor deciding where to park their money, but thinks that ultimately, “that volatility should manifest itself as excess returns to investors who are able to figure out their investment strategy and deploy in this environment.”
Exactly what firms will manage this remains an open question, and the opportunities may be short-lived — but it’s a race that plenty of investors are getting in on.
“I mean, God bless the Europeans for caring about climate.”
Bill Gates, the billionaire co-founder of Microsoft and one of the world’s most important funders of climate-related causes, has a new message: Lighten up on the “doomsday.”
In a new memo, called “Three tough truths about climate,” Gates calls for a “strategic pivot.” Climate-concerned philanthropy should focus on global health and poverty, he says, which will still cause more human suffering than global warming.
“I’m not saying we should ignore temperature-related deaths because diseases are a bigger problem,” he writes. “What I am saying is that we should deal with disease and extreme weather in proportion to the suffering they cause, and that we should go after the underlying conditions that leave people vulnerable to them. While we need to limit the number of extremely hot and cold days, we also need to make sure that fewer people live in poverty and poor health so that extreme weather isn’t such a threat to them.”
This new focus didn’t come with a change in funding priorities — but that’s partly because some big shake-ups have already happened. In February, Heatmap reported that Breakthrough Energy, Gates’ climate-focused funding group, had slashed its grant-making budget. Gates later closed Breakthrough’s policy and advocacy office altogether.
Despite eliminating those financial commitments, he still dwells on two of his longtime obsessions in the new memo: cutting the “green premium” for energy technologies, meaning the delta between the cost of carbon-emitting and clean energy technologies, and improving the measurement of how spending can do the most for human welfare. The same topics dominated his thinking when I last spoke to the billionaire at the 2023 United Nations climate conference in Dubai.
What seems to have shifted, instead, is the global political environment. The Trump administration and Elon Musk gutted the federal government’s spending on global public health causes, such as vaccines and malaria prevention. European countries have also cut back their global aid spending, although not as dramatically as the U.S.
Gates seemingly now feels called to their defense: “Vaccines are the undisputed champion of lives saved per dollar spent,” he writes, praising the vaccine alliance Gavi in particular. “Energy innovation is a good buy not because it saves lives now, but because it will provide cheap clean energy and eventually lower emissions, which will have large benefits for human welfare in the future.”
Last week, Gates shared his thinking about climate change at a roundtable with a handful of reporters. He was, as always, engaging. I’ve shared some of his new takes on climate policy below. His quotes have been edited for clarity.
The environment we’re in today, the policies for climate change are less accommodating. It’s hard to name a country where you’d say, Oh, the climate policies are more accommodating today than they have been in the past.
The thesis I had was that middle income countries — who were already, at that time, the majority of all emissions — would never pay a premium for greenness. And so you could say, well, maybe the rich countries should subsidize that. But you know, the amounts involved would get you up to, like, 4% of rich country budgets would have to be transferred to do that. And we’re at 1% and going down. And there are some other worthy things that that money goes for, other than subsidizing positive green premium type approaches. So the thesis in the book [How to Avoid a Climate Disaster, published in 2021] is we had to innovate our way to negative green premiums for the middle income countries.
Climate [change] is an evil thing in that it’s caused by rich countries and high middle-income countries and the primary burden [falls on poor countries]. When I looked into climate activists, I said, Well, this is incredible. They care about poor countries so much. That’s wonderful, that they feel guilty about it. But in fact, a lot of climate activists, they have such an extreme view of what’s going to happen in rich countries — their climate activism is not because they care about poor farmers and Africa, it’s because they have some purported view that, like, New York City, can’t deal with the flooding or the heat.
The other challenge we have in the climate movement is in order to have some degree of accountability, it was very focused on short-term goals and per-country reports. And the per-country reporting thing is, in a way, a good thing, because a country — certainly when it comes to deforestation or what it’s doing on its electric grid, there is sovereign accountability for what’s being done. But I mean, the way everybody makes steel is the same. The way everybody makes the cement, it’s the same. The way we make fertilizer, it’s all the same. And so there can’t be some wonderful surprise, where some country comes in and, you know, gives you this little number [for its Paris Agreement goals], and you go, Wow, good! You’re so tough, you’re so good, you’re so amazing. Because other than deforestation and your particular electric grid, these are all global things.
If you’re a rich country, the costs of adaptation are just one of many, many things that are not gigantic, huge percentages of GDP — you know, rebuilding L.A. so that it’s like the Getty Museum, in terms of there’s no brush that can catch on fire, there’s no roof that can catch on fire, adds about 10% cost to the rebuild. It’s not like, Oh my god, we can’t live in LA. There’s no apocalyptic story for rich countries. [Climate adaptation] is one of many things that you should pay attention to, like, Does your health system work? Does your education system work? Does your political system work? There are a variety of things that are also quite important.
The place where it gets really tough is in these poor countries. But you know, what is the greatest tool for climate adaptation? Getting rich — growing your economy is the biggest single thing, living in conditions where you don’t face big climate problems. So when you say to an African country, Hey, you have a natural gas deposit, and we’re going to try to block you from getting financing for using that natural gas deposit … It probably won’t work, because there’s a lot of money in the world. It’s not clear how you’d achieve that. And it’s also in terms of the warming effect of that natural gas, versus the improvement of the conditions of the people in that country — it’s not even a close thing.
People in the [climate] movement, we do have to say to ourselves, For the Europeans, how much were they willing to pay in order to support climate? — and did we overestimate in terms of forcing them to switch to electric cars, to buy electric heat pumps, to have their price of electricity be higher? Did we overestimate their willingness to pay with some of those policies? And you do have to be careful because if your climate policies are too aggressive, you will be unelected, and you’ll have a right-wing government that cares not a bit about climate. I mean, God bless the Europeans for caring about climate. You worry they care so much about it that the people you talk to, you won’t be able to meet with them again, because they won’t be in power.