Sign In or Create an Account.

By continuing, you agree to the Terms of Service and acknowledge our Privacy Policy

Podcast

Humanity’s Most Abundant Material Is a Huge Climate Problem

Inside episode 25 of Shift Key.

Cement production.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

Jesse is on vacation until August, so this is a special, Rob-only summer episode of Shift Key.

The world uses about 30 billion tons of concrete every year — more than any other material except water. It is the most ubiquitous human-made substance in the global economy. It’s also a huge climate problem. Producing cement, which is the key ingredient in concrete, generates roughly 8% of global annual greenhouse gas emissions.

Cody Finke has a plan to change that. He is the chief executive officer and cofounder of Brimstone, a startup that says it can cheaply produce ordinary Portland cement — the kind used in construction worldwide — without carbon emissions. This week, Rob chats with Finke about why cement’s carbon emissions aren’t from fossil fuels, why there are fewer cement plants than you might think, and the all-important difference between cement and concrete.

This episode of Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap.

Subscribe to “Shift Key” and find this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can also add the show’s RSS feed to your podcast app to follow us directly.

Here is an excerpt from our conversation:

Robinson Meyer: Concrete is such an archetypal big machine problem in decarbonization. Because not only is it carbon intensive, but also — like car engines or like plane engines but, notably, unlike power plants — maybe like power plants — the technology to do it is extremely dispersed. There are hundreds of thousands of concrete plants around the world, and they all have to be replaced to decarbonize this process. It’s just a huge, huge scaling endeavor, and one that, forces you to reckon with the material implications of decarbonization in a way that, I think, it can often be easier to skip over or, just think, in the form of electricity: Oh, we can just drop new power plants in, we can build renewables. But that’s not how decarbonizing concrete will work.

Cody Finke: I would actually want to challenge that slightly.

Meyer: Perfect.

Finke: So, for many solutions, that’s the case because you’re absolutely right, there are hundreds of thousands of concrete plants. But there are not hundreds of thousands of cement plants. Cement is the binder in concrete, and for the listeners —

Meyer: Yeah, let’s actually do this because clearly I also don’t fully understand.

Finke: Concrete’s the building material. It is the most consumed material on the planet. We make 40 to 50 billion tons of it every year as humans. Concrete is sand, gravel, water, and cement — cement is the glue. Without cement, concrete would just be a pile of sand and gravel — a wet pile of sand and gravel. Cement is essential for turning that pile of sand and gravel into a pourable rock.

But cement is only about 10% of concrete — 10% to 20% — and it's made in large, centralized facilities that are located basically around big population centers. There are only 2,000 or 3,000 cement plants in the world. So it depends on your solution, right? If your solution is making a novel material, then it may require working at the concrete level, which can be good and bad. There’s a lot of those facilities, but they’re also a bit cheaper. There’s good and bad attributes of that.

But if you were to do something like what Brimstone is doing, which is making ordinary Portland cement, then what you have to do is replace those 2,000 or 3,000 cement plants, which is still a big number —

Meyer: It is still a big number, but actually not a very big number.

This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by …

Watershed’s climate data engine helps companies measure and reduce their emissions, turning the data they already have into an audit-ready carbon footprint backed by the latest climate science. Get the sustainability data you need in weeks, not months. Learn more at watershed.com.

As a global leader in PV and ESS solutions, Sungrow invests heavily in research and development, constantly pushing the boundaries of solar and battery inverter technology. Discover why Sungrow is the essential component of the clean energy transition by visiting sungrowpower.com.

Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow.

Green

You’re out of free articles.

Subscribe today to experience Heatmap’s expert analysis 
of climate change, clean energy, and sustainability.
To continue reading
Create a free account or sign in to unlock more free articles.
or
Please enter an email address
By continuing, you agree to the Terms of Service and acknowledge our Privacy Policy
Climate

Trump Sues Over Superfund Statute

On Democrats’ AI blueprint, more nationalized minerals, and the GOP’s anti-geoengineering push

Trump Moves to Kill Vermont’s Climate Superfund
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

Current conditions: Tropical Storm Mario is lashing the southwestern U.S. with rainstorms and potential flash flooding • The drought in the Northeast and the Ohio Valley is worsening, with rain deficits in major cities 15% below average • Tropical Cyclone Mirasol is bringing heavy rains to the Philippine island of Luzon.

THE TOP FIVE

1. Justice Department looks to sink Vermont’s climate Superfund

The Trump administration announced a lawsuit Tuesday aimed at tanking Vermont’s Climate Superfund Act, which set up the nation’s first program to force fossil fuel companies to pay for adaptations to deal with the effects of warming temperatures. The Department of Justice said the legislation “will likely” impose “billions of dollars in liability on foreign and domestic energy companies for their alleged past contributions to climate change.” The motion, filed on Monday, comes months after the Justice Department filed an initial complaint in May targeting the law and similar legislation in New York, Hawaii, and Michigan.

Keep reading...Show less
Yellow
Politics

What J.P. Morgan’s Chief Climate Advisor Is Telling Energy Startups

Rob talks with Sarah Kapnick about our new era of energy insecurity.

Clean energy.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

We live in a new energy era — one in which the inputs and technologies key to clean electricity production are at the heart of international politics. What will that mean for decarbonization? And how should climate tech companies prepare?

On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Rob chats about those questions and more with Dr. Sarah Kapnick. She is the Global Head of Climate Advisory at J.P. Morgan, where she advises the bank's clients on climate, energy, biodiversity and sustainability topics. She was the former chief scientist at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration from 2022 to 2024, and was previously a research scientist at NOAA’s Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory in Princeton, New Jersey.

Keep reading...Show less
Green
Energy

Why Mining Is the Dirty Underbelly of the Clean Energy Transition

Thea Riofrancos, a professor of political science at Providence College, discusses her new book, Extraction, and the global consequences of our growing need for lithium.

Lithium mining.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

We cannot hope to halt or even slow dangerous climate change without remaking our energy systems, and we cannot remake our energy systems without environmentally damaging projects like lithium mines.

This is the perplexing paradox at the heart of Extraction: The Frontiers of Green Capitalism, a new book by political scientist and climate activist Thea Riofrancos, coming out September 23, from Norton.

Keep reading...Show less
Yellow