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Podcast

Permitting Reform, Data Centers, and More With Senator Heinrich and Secretary Granholm

Rob talks with two senior Democrats about the future of energy in the U.S.

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Heatmap Illustration | Unsplash

The Democratic Party’s climate and energy policy is at a difficult moment. Over the past year and a half, the Trump administration has attacked solar and wind energy, started an inflationary war, and repealed key parts of the Inflation Reduction Act. And about a year and a half from now, Democrats will pick a presidential candidate and pitch their energy and climate policies to voters again.

How are key Democrats feeling at this moment? Rob recently had a chance to sit down with two of the party’s most important energy policy makers — Senator Martin Heinrich of New Mexico, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Energy and Natural Resource Committee, and former Energy Secretary and Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm — for an in-person conversation in Washington, D.C.

On this episode of Shift Key, Rob chats with Senator Heinrich and Secretary Granholm, about fuel prices, the state of permitting discussions, AI data centers, and what each learned from writing — and implementing — the Inflation Reduction Act.

Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap News.

Subscribe to “Shift Key” and find this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can also add the show’s RSS feed to your podcast app to follow us directly.



Here is an excerpt from their conversation:

Robinson Meyer: Secretary Granholm, I wonder what watching now 18 months of the Trump administration, you think, you know, we should have done this differently during the Biden administration, or there's an issue here that I would have handled differently, or now that I see what's happened and how they've approached governing.

Secretary Granholm: Yeah, it's such a, it's a great question because I think every one of the cabinet officials looks at what has happened in the Trump administration and says, man, I should have broken more eggs, not more laws, but I should have really insisted on much more quicker, all of the negotiations that took forever on getting the treasury guidelines and all of that. We should have, I mean, like a cannonball should have shot through. And I think that's a good lesson that will be taken away for the next administration.

Robinson Meyer: And why didn't it happen?

Secretary Granholm:
Because there's process, because there's lawyers, because, you know, I mean, it just, There was a sense that this is the way you do things, et cetera.

Senator Martin Heinrich:
And we accepted it.

Secretary Granholm:
Yeah, we all accepted it.

Senator Martin Heinrich:
And we shouldn't have.

We should have built programs that don't take two years of analysis. And that is definitely the lesson that I took from the rapid...the things that were fairly straightforward, like the tax credits, were able to move quickly. But there were whole programs like the Green Bank that got stood up just in time to be turned off.

Robinson Meyer: Is that a drafting failure or an implementation failure?

Secretary Granholm:
I mean, to be fair, there's a lot in implementation, but there are a lot of rules around all of this that have certain timelines, et cetera. So I think taking a look at all of that, I mean, Democrats have been very, we're going to follow the rules and we're not going to bust, you know, we're not going to break norms. And I think this administration has broken a lot of norms and shown that you can get stuff done more quickly. Now, I don't like what they've gotten done quickly, but nonetheless, I think it's a lesson for us about challenging the status quo.

You can find a full transcript of the episode here.

Mentioned:

Previously on Shift Key: What Senator Martin Heinrich Needs to See in a Permitting Deal

Previously on Shift Key: Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm on What Comes After Biden’s Climate Agenda

Previously on Heatmap: 3 Takeaways From Our SunZia Investigation


Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow.

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