Sign In or Create an Account.

By continuing, you agree to the Terms of Service and acknowledge our Privacy Policy

Podcast

What Senator Martin Heinrich Needs to See in a Permitting Deal

Rob talks with the lawmaker from New Mexico (and one-time mechanical engineer) about the present and future of climate policy.

•
Martin Heinrich.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

The permitting reform conversation is heating up.

On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Rob talks to Senator Martin Heinrich about whether Republicans and Democrats will reach a permitting reform deal this year. They chat about what Democrats would need to see in such a deal, how it could help transmission projects, and why such a deal will ultimately need to constrain President Trump in some way.

They also discuss the future of Democratic energy and climate policy — what Heinrich learned from the Biden administration, what the Inflation Reduction Act got right (and wrong), and why data centers are becoming a new kind of energy villain.

Heinrich is the senior senator from New Mexico (and a well-known transmission policy nerd). He’s also a trained mechanical engineer and the son of a utility lineman. Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University. Jesse is off this week.

Subscribe to “Shift Key” and find this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can also add the show’s RSS feed to your podcast app to follow us directly.

Here is an excerpt from our conversation:

Robinson Meyer: There’s one bill we reported on yesterday at Heatmap called the FREEDOM Act. It just came out of the House. It has a bipartisan group behind it, including [Republican] Mike Lawler from New York and [Democrat] Adam Gray in California. It tries to prevent federal agencies from terminating work on a fully permitted project or affecting ongoing construction on a fully permitted project. And it would establish this fund that a company that has seen its permits get yanked could pull from in the Treasury Department, up to $5 million.

Does this bill meet your concerns? Have you looked at it? Is this the kind of text that you would need to see to say, okay, we could put a deal together?

Senator Martin Heinrich: We’re very intrigued in digging into that legislation right now, and I do think that anything we can do to create more certainty in the market — and that’s true for both renewables and for traditional energy. Because the truth is, we can’t have a system where, when one party controls the White House, they attack this set of energy, and then when it changes hands, that group attacks this other set of energy. We just need to set policy and then have predictable flows of capital into the market. And so I think this is a positive step forward. And we should look at all the things the House does and evaluate them on their merits.

I will say that if the figure is $5 billion for this fund, you could exhaust that on one wind project. And thank goodness the court stepped in as quickly as they did because those offshore wind projects were on the scale of tens of billions of dollars. And effectively, if you’re going shut those off, that’s a takings, in my view. That’s like actually stealing someone’s capital, stealing someone’s money.

And we can’t — that’s third world stuff. We can’t have that in the United States of America. But I give credit to the House for coming forward with this kind of thing because we do need to constrain it.

You can find the full transcript of this episode here.

Mentioned:

SunZia: The Untold Saga of America's Biggest Power Line, by Robinson Meyer

The FREEDOM Act: New Bipartisan House Bill Would Keep President From Yanking Permits

This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by ...

Accelerate your clean energy career with Yale’s online certificate programs. Explore the 10-month Financing and Deploying Clean Energy program or the 5-month Clean and Equitable Energy Development program. Use referral code HeatMap26 and get your application in by the priority deadline for $500 off tuition to one of Yale’s online certificate programs in clean energy. Learn more at cbey.yale.edu/online-learning-opportunities.

Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow.

Green
🔒

You’ve reached your free article limit

Subscribe to Heatmap News for unlimited access to daily energy and climate coverage.
To continue reading
Create a free account or sign in to unlock more free articles.
or
Please enter an email address
By continuing, you agree to the Terms of Service and acknowledge our Privacy Policy
Daily Briefing

Permitting Reform’s Battle Lines Are Taking Shape

Many nonprofits representing the environmental and climate movement are split.

The Capitol.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

This is Heatmap Daily, an evening digest written by our executive editor.

It’s now been just over a week since a gang of four bipartisan senators released the Bipartisan American Affordability and Jobs Act, or BAAJA. The permitting reform proposal would make too many changes to federal law to summarize cleanly here — read our explainer for that — but suffice it to say it creates a messy group of winners and losers. Utilities, data centers, and the Trump administration would lose; electricity ratepayers, clean energy companies, long-distance transmission lines, and natural gas pipeline builders win. (As would geothermal startups, virtual power plant providers, and a few other climate tech subsectors that my colleague Katie Brigham recently detailed.)

Keep reading...Show less
Green
Energy

Big Tech’s Nuclear Hedge

Advanced nuclear will take a decade or more to hit commercial scale. Meanwhile, the hyperscalers need power now. Enter the uprate.

Google, Amazon, and nuclear towers.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

When America’s tech titans started plowing money into nuclear technology to power data centers in 2024, companies such as Google and Amazon opted to invest first in next-generation reactor startups. But electricity demand is soaring today, and those projects are still years away — at least — from generating power at reasonable commercial rates.

So the industry is hedging by betting on existing nuclear plants to pump out more electricity in the near term. Uprates — renovations that allow nuclear operators to produce more power from existing reactors — are all the rage this year.

Keep reading...Show less
Blue
AM Briefing

Piledrivers of the Caribbean

On methane rules, British wind, and the Israeli electricity market

An ExxonMobil refinery.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

Current conditions: Singapore’s air is the worst in the world as wildfire smoke from Indonesia chokes the city state and neighboring Malaysia • Following a summer-like heat wave, temperatures in the American West are set to drop by as much as 50 degrees Fahrenheit as a cold snap moves in • In the Gulf of Mexico, Tropical Storm Isaias officially strengthened into the first Atlantic hurricane of the season this morning.


THE TOP FIVE

1. Exxon Mobil eyes its next offshore oil patch after Guyana: Trinidad and Tobago

With its offshore oil fields booming in Guyana and its opportunities opening in Venezuela, Exxon Mobil is eyeing the next location for the Americas’ oil and gas: Trinidad and Tobago. In an interview with the Financial Times this week, the company’s exploration chief said the island nation’s existing oil and gas industry could expand to tap the same basin east of Venezuela that has transformed Guyana from one of the hemisphere’s poorest nations to one of its richest in terms of per capita gross domestic product. “A lot of people ask, ‘well, where’s the next Guyana?’” John Ardill, Exxon Mobil’s vice-president and head of global exploration, told the newspaper. “In Trinidad, we moved in as a play extension to Guyana.” The agreement between Exxon Mobil and the Trinidadian government took “about half as long as it usually takes on a good day,” delivering a pact in “record time.”

Keep reading...Show less
Red