Sign In or Create an Account.

By continuing, you agree to the Terms of Service and acknowledge our Privacy Policy

Podcast

Why Meta’s Longtime CTO Is Now Investing in Climate Tech

Rob talks with Gigascale Capital’s Mike Schroepfer about how to make U.S. manufacturing better, cheaper, faster, and cleaner.

Ocean climate tech.
Heatmap Illustration/Panthalassa

It has been a hard few years for climate tech. But we recently got a bright spot: Earlier this month, Gigascale Capital announced it had raised $250 million to build the physical infrastructure driving decarbonization. That was notable in part because Gigscale’s founder is Mike Schroepfer, Meta’s former chief technology officer, who has gone deep on climate tech since leaving the company in 2022.

On this episode of Shift Key, Mike joins Rob to discuss why Gigascale chose this moment to raise $250 million, what’s greenwashing (and what’s not) in AI, what the American manufacturing industry does better than China’s, and why Gigascale has not engaged in “climate hushing.”

Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap News.

Subscribe to “Shift Key” and find this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can also add the show’s RSS feed to your podcast app to follow us directly.

Here is an excerpt from their conversation:

Robinson Meyer: Where do you see that innovation happening in the hardware cycle? I mean, we’ve named SpaceX, obviously, but aerospace is, I think, kind of famously one of the last remaining sectors where China is still trying to catch up to Western firms in terms of cost competitiveness, in terms of sophistication. And then when we talk about, like, solar, it sounds like there’s a lot of cost to lose, but it’s still kind of piggybacking on the back of a fundamentally Chinese-dominated process. And obviously the Form Energy story is awesome, they have a great product, but also it’s — I’m not going to say it’s a one-off, but it does seem that they have this battery chemistry that is not related to the lithium-ion chemistry that nobody else has, and they’ve been able to get there first.

America is great at innovation, but we’ve struggled to convert that innovation over the past 10 years in the world of hardware into actually great products. And so, do you have a thesis about how that is going to change going forward, or where in the cycle we need to intervene, or where Gigascale can intervene to make sure that that innovation actually gets carried through into real products that that change the marketplace at climate level scales?

Mike Schroepfer: I mean, I guess I just fundamentally disagree with that statement. Let’s talk about some of the most valuable companies in the world, Nvidia and SpaceX. You know, Nvidia is still one of the world’s best. And I mean, you could say it’s manufactured at TSMC, but it’s fundamentally ... they’re designing a chip, you know. SpaceX is the only company that’s landing rockets every other week, and they’ve been doing it for a decade. Tesla really pioneered the electric vehicle, and I can go on and on and on. In terms of, you know, I built tens of millions of square feet of data center space. AI, the U.S. is still ahead, and AI, probably one of the most consequential technologies. Yes, the AI itself is software, but it’s on the back of massive infrastructure build. Where are all these data centers? They’re in the United States. That’s where all the training is happening, and that involves a bunch of infrastructure build.

Part of why I got into this was, I, you know, it’s reading all this stuff about how the U.S. and the West doesn’t know how to build anything anymore, and everything’s late and expensive. And like, we were out there building data centers, and I was like, these things are like plus or minus 3% on time, on budget, every single time — like, what the heck. And when I like looked at it, the thing everyone is missing is like, yes, when you make every project a special snowflake project, it’s a disaster. Every custom home ... even like electrical projects, right now, you know, if you go spec a transformer, it’s like, you hire an engineer and they write the specs, and they do a design doc, and they send it over, and like, why does this take forever? It’s because it’s like a custom bespoke wedding cake, basically every single time. It’s like, no, no, no, no. What’s the Costco sheet cake equivalent for transformers? I just roll in, and I’m buying them, you know, by the palette.

That’s what Heron Power is doing, is saying, like, no, no, we have a 5-megawatt transformer. It’s software controlled, so your voltages can be determined like at runtime. Cool, cool, you don’t need to custom-design this thing, and that’s an entirely different process. And that’s the way we build data centers, is like every single building looked the same from the sky. It was an L-shaped building, then we made an H-shaped building. It’s four data halls, and we would just like roll through and build the same thing over and over again. But Nvidia, part of the reason so valuable is like the, you know, same chip, basically with a couple small variants in my gaming PC is the thing that’s in my data center, but the core R&D was the same. And when we do that and we concentrate R&D and technical innovation, and then replicate the thing out, the U.S. is sort of unmatched in that.

You can find a full transcript of the episode here.

Mentioned:

Previously on Shift Key: What J.P. Morgan’s Chief Climate Advisor Is Telling Energy Startups

This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by ...

Heatmap Pro brings all of our research, reporting, and insights down to the local level. The software platform tracks all local opposition to clean energy and data centers, forecasts community sentiment, and guides data-driven engagement campaigns. Book a demo today to see the premier intelligence platform for project permitting and community engagement.

Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow.

Blue

You’re out of free articles.

Celebrate Climate Week NYC with us. Paid subscribers get unlimited access to our daily reporting plus priority access to Heatmap House, all for just $99/year.
To continue reading
Create a free account or sign in to unlock more free articles.
or
Please enter an email address
By continuing, you agree to the Terms of Service and acknowledge our Privacy Policy
AM Briefing

Life’s Not All Right on the Rhine

On Texas data centers, Microsoft’s carbon removal, and cross-border aluminum

The Rhine River.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

Current conditions: Dangerous degrees of wildfire smoke swept into the Pacific Northwest, leaving air quality in fire-struck Spokane, Washington, at very unhealthy levels through midweek • Yesterday’s thunderstorms across the Northeast grounded flights and delayed thousands of passengers as key airports in New York City, New Jersey, and New England halted incoming arrivals for hours • Temperatures in Abu Dhabi are soaring to nearly 110 degrees Fahrenheit all week.

THE TOP FIVE

1. Rhine River’s water levels drop to lowest level since 1880

A vessel sails past the partially dried-up river bed of the Rhine in Duisburg, western Germany. Ina FASSBENDER / AFP via Getty Images

Keep reading...Show less
Yellow
Donald Trump.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

This is an edition of Heatmap Daily, an evening review of the day’s news written by our executive editor. Sign up for it here.

Welcome to August — which, as the political commentator Josh Barro once observed, is the year’s “stupidest news month.” Because Congress goes on recess around this time of year, and so many other Americans go on vacation, “the quantity of serious news structurally declines,” and we journalists have to turn to sillier stories in order to fill the space.

Keep reading...Show less
Blue
Climate Tech

How Clean Cement Startups Are Riding the AI Boom

Data centers are a big test for the nascent industry. But they also can’t fill the orderbooks.

Clean cement.
Heatmap Illustration | Unsplash

For the last few years, there’s been just one story dominating the economy, Silicon Valley, and much of the climate tech world too: artificial intelligence. It has consumed investor’s time and money, leaving relatively little for the rest of the startup ecosystem. But for companies that can hitch themselves to the AI boom and tie their value proposition to the data center buildout, this narrow funding focus can be a tailwind.

The most obvious beneficiaries so far have largely fallen into two camps: startups using AI to build cheaper, better products or those developing technologies to cleanly power data centers themselves. But what about the companies actually manufacturing the physical materials behind these facilities? The data center buildout is ultimately an investment in the physical economy, which largely means an investment in concrete — the most widely used man-made material on Earth.

Keep reading...Show less
Blue