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Podcast

Shift Key Classic: How to Hook Up More Power Plants

Rob and Jesse revisit the basics of the ultra-clogged electricity interconnection queue.

Power lines.
Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images

Shift Key is off for Labor Day, so we’re running this classic episode.

The power grid is straining as new data centers, factories, and electric vehicles come online. For the first time in 15 years, American electricity demand is rising again.

The easiest option is to meet that new demand with new supply — new power plants. But in many parts of the country, it can take years to hook up new wind, solar, and batteries to the grid. The reason why is a clogged and broken system called the interconnection queue.

On this week’s episode of Shift Key, which first aired in 2024, Jesse and Rob speak with two experts about how to understand — and how to fix — what is perhaps the biggest obstacle to deploying more renewables on the U.S. power grid.

Tyler Norris is a doctoral student at Duke University’s Nicholas School of the Environment. He was formerly vice president of development at Cypress Creek Renewables, and he served on North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper’s Carbon Policy Working Group. Claire Wayner is a senior associate at RMI’s carbon-free electricity program, where she works on the clean and competitive grids team.

Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University.

Subscribe to “Shift Key” and find this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can also add the show’s RSS feed to your podcast app to follow us directly.

Here is an excerpt from our conversation:

Robinson Meyer: So, Tyler, you’ve been proposing on Twitter — or on X, I suppose — kind of one weird trick that would improve the interconnection process and make us deploy a lot more clean energy faster and save people the billions of dollars we were just talking about.

What is it? Please enlighten us.

Tyler Norris: So as mentioned, Texas is adding clean electricity much faster than every other market — and not just clean electricity, every form of generation capacity you can imagine. And the reason they’re able to do that is because they’re not subjecting those generators to all those severe conditions that I mentioned earlier and then allocating the cost of upgrading the grid to those generators upfront.

Instead, they’re attempting to proactively plan the system in response to generators that show up and send that market signal regarding where there may be opportunities to upgrade the grid. And it works, of course, because Texas is an energy-only electricity market, so they’re not studying the projects for their capacity value, so there’s some simplifications that make it more viable.

That said, even outside ERCOT, there’s a lot we could do to make this what we call energy-only interconnection option more viable for generators, and I think it could offer a lot of benefits. It’s much lower cost. It’s much faster to get projects online. It can contribute to production cost savings. It also provides a reserve of generators that can be upgraded to capacity resources if and when network capacity becomes available. And it can actually contribute to reliability and reduce the risk of shedding load during reliability events, even though they’re not formally qualified as what we call capacity resources

Meyer: Can you give us an example of what you mean? What is ERCOT actually doing here?

Norris: So it means that the Texas grid operator is willing to curtail generators as necessary to avoid any reliability impacts on the system. And so they’re basically, they’re managing the system in real time. And this does lead to a higher rate of curtailment on average for especially some of these renewable generators. And so that’s an important dimension of it. But there’s a lot of nuance there, too. Even the capacity resources outside of Texas can be curtailed during congestion events.

So they’re not assigning grid upgrades to the projects upfront. They’re instead looking at where the generators show up and connect to the system and then identifying the most valuable grid upgrades from a cost and a reliability standpoint and prioritizing those.

Mentioned:

Tyler’s study on “energy only” interconnection rules

Matthew Zeitlin on the big problems with PJM — and on Tyler’s research into flexible loads

FERC Order 2023 on Improvements to Generator Interconnection Procedures and Agreements

Advanced Energy United report on “Unlocking America's Energy: How to Efficiently Connect New Generation to the Grid

NRDC: “PJM’s Capacity Auction: The Real Story

Rob’s downshift; Jesse’s upshift.

This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by …

Accelerate your clean energy career with Yale’s online certificate programs. Gain real-world skills, build strong networks, and keep working while you learn. Explore the year-long Financing and Deploying Clean Energy program or the 5-month Clean and Equitable Energy Development program. Learn more here.

Join clean energy leaders at RE+ 25, September 8–11 in Las Vegas. Explore opportunities to meet rising energy demand with the latest in solar, storage, EVs, and more at North America’s largest energy event. Save 20% with code HEATMAP20 at re-plus.com.

Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow.

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